Heather Hansman — The Untold Stories of Three Fierce Women

This is Heather Hansman's third appearance on the podcast, and if you've been listening for a while, you know how much her work has shaped my own understanding of the West. Heather is an award-winning journalist and the author of "Downriver" and "Powder Days"—two books I reference constantly—and she's back today to talk about her brand-new book, Fierce Country: The Untold Story of Three Women Who Ignited America's Love for the Wild, which hits shelves the same day this episode is released. "Fierce Country" tells the stories of three women who were pivotal in shaping how we think about recreation and conservation today, yet whose stories have largely gone untold: Georgie White, one of the first Grand Canyon river guides; Anne LaBastille, an off-the-grid Adirondack guide and pioneering climate scientist; and Dolores LaChapelle, a legendary powder skier and environmental philosopher whose ideas helped launch the deep ecology movement. These are three complicated, larger-than-life characters, and Heather weaves their wild adventures together with her own personal story in a way that makes the book resonate no matter who you are. As always with Heather's work, it introduced me to ideas I didn't even know I needed to be thinking about. Heather and I talked about how she chose these three women and why their stories were left out of the history most of us learned, and we dug into some of the big ideas woven throughout the book—the heroine's journey versus the hero's journey, the superwoman myth, and the surprising research on men and women in outdoor sports. We discussed the double standards that outdoorswomen face, especially as parents, and the culture of harassment that unfortunately still exists in the outdoor world. We also chatted about Heather's recent investigative reporting on bots gaming the recreation.gov permit system, the importance of journalism and speaking truth to power, and how five years of living with these women's stories has changed the way Heather moves through the world. I loved this conversation, and I can't recommend "Fierce Country" highly enough—the book is out today, so be sure to click through to the episode notes and grab a copy. --- Heather Hansman Fierce Country: The Untold Story of Three Women Who Ignited America's Love for the Wild Heather's First and Second M&P episodes Full episode notes and links: mountainandprairie.com/heather-hansman-3 --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing Heather Hansman (again) and highlighting Patagonia books 7:00 - Book number three 8:08 - Overview of Fierce Country 12:05 - Why these women 16:22 - Georgie and Anne on the wild 19:31 - Anne vs. Thoreau 23:08 - Constraint drives creativity 26:12 - Driven by hardships 28:58 - The heroine's journey 30:45 - Female and male differences 35:40- To scold or not to scold 41:41 - Pitching the book 44:08 - Outward Bound 46:56 - Recreation.gov 50:07 - Slowing down 56:48 - Bad feminism 1:04:50 - What's next for Heather --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain