America's Nuclear Guardians: A Conversation on Security, Espionage, and Speaking Truth to Power

A former acting Under Secretary for Nuclear Security on the damage being done to the Department of Energy’s (DOE) Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence, and why he "never bets against America."Host Jim Lawler sits down with his former CIA colleague Bruce Held, who served as Chief of Station on three continents, Special Assistant to two National Security Council principals, Director of DOE's Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence, and ultimately acting Under Secretary for Nuclear Security.Held describes DOE’s Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence unique mission — leveraging the thousands of top-secret cleared scientists at the national labs to understand foreign nuclear programs and prevent technological surprise. Held describes the brutal budget battles with the Pentagon over funding America's neglected nuclear deterrent, and the ultimate resolution in which participants prioritized national security above parochial interests. He warns that the current administration's cuts and restructuring at the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) and DOE will take a decade to rebuild, creating a dangerous window of vulnerability. He discusses the counterintelligence threat from Russia and China, the importance of proactive engagement over bureaucratic secrecy, and why the American people should be asking hard questions about DOGE's access to personnel data.Guest info: Bruce Held is a former Senior CIA clandestine Case Officer who served as Chief of Stationon three continents and special assistant to two National Security Council principals. He was Director of DOE's Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence and later served as acting Under Secretary for Nuclear Security at the National Nuclear Security Administration. He is the author of several books on espionage history, including A Spy's Guide to Santa Fe and Albuquerque and The Spy's Guide to the Kennedy Assassination, as well as a Substack column, The Spy's Guide to American History. He also writes spy fiction, including The Intimate Spy.Episode Transcript