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by Working Class Audio
Peel back the glamour of the professional recording world. Guests from the world of audio for music, film, games, restoration, and more share their insights on how they made their journey, how they survive, their advice on the real things including wins, losses, working with other people, money, and career advice. Hosted by audio engineer Matt Boudreau. The Working Class Audio Podcast - Navigating the World of Recording with a working class perspective.
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- 1 weeks ago54 min
WCA #614 with Michael Frondelli, Part 1 – Astoria, R&B Days, Salsa Nights, and Electric Lady
For episode 614, Matt talks with Michael Frondelli, producer, engineer, and former Vice President of Capitol Records Studios, where he ran the facility for eleven years before going independent in 2001. Michael grew up in Astoria, Queens. Tony Bennett took vocal lessons with his Uncle Sal. The Walken family ran the bakery on Steinway Street. He came up playing guitar in soul bands and rock bands in the 60s, studied business in college, landed a maintenance tech job at Broadway Recording on 1697 Broadway, and from there made his way to Electric Lady in November 1975, where he spent nine years. This is Part 1 of a two-part conversation.In This Episode, We Discuss:Growing Up in Astoria, QueensMusic in the Family and Learning GuitarSoul Bands, Rock Bands, and the 60sCollege, the Draft Lottery, and Moving to ManhattanCarpentry, Soundproofing, and Finding a Way Into RecordingBroadway Recording at 1697 BroadwayLearning to Listen, Watch, and Visualize Signal PathLanding at Electric Lady in 1975Nine Years in the Room: Zeppelin, Chick Corea, Jaco Pastorius, Joni MitchellWorking With Eddie Kramer on Song Remains the SameRebel Yell: Finding Billy Idol a DrummerKeith Forsey, Charlie Sexton, and Don't You Forget About MeGetting Management and Learning the BusinessGoing From $5 an Hour to $2,500 a MixMatt's RANT!: Revisiting Backing Up and ArchivingLinks and Show Notes:Michael's siteCredits:Guest: Michael FrondelliHost/Engineer/Producer: Matt BoudreauWCA Theme Music: Cliff TruesdellThe Voice: Chuck Smith
- 2 weeks ago1h 6m
WCA #613 with Ben Mellott – Northern Virginia, Church Sound, Farm Festivals, and Profit First
For episode 613, Matt talks with Ben Mellott — recording engineer, mixer, and owner of Nothing But Noise studio in Northern Virginia. Ben has been freelance since 2014, balances studio work with live production at churches, farms, and local venues, and runs every dollar through the Profit First system. They talk about building a career on curiosity, the alternative path through cassette manufacturing and church sound, and why the business side of audio doesn't sound like fun until it absolutely is.In This Episode, We Discuss:Northern Virginia, Born and RaisedA Dad at Toys R Us and a Mom in the Church ChoirRecording Bands on a Tascam Four-Track at Ten Dollars a SongThe Recording Workshop in Chillicothe, Ohio — Audio Boot CampLearning Signal Flow Before HardwareManufacturing Cassettes and CDs at Lion RecordingMoving Into Graphics — Quark Express, InDesign, and Terrible Early WebsitesRoadie and Merch for a Month-Long US Tour With FrotisGetting the Farm Festival GigTen Years of Sunday Church Sound — and What He Learned About TemperamentThe Drummer in the Crowd Who Got Him the Venue GigReal-Life Social Proof — Likable Enough (For a Live Sound Guy)Curiosity as a Career StrategyNothing But Noise — The Studio and the Freelance Life Since 2014Debt, an Inheritance That Didn't Change the Slope, and the PandemicImplementing the Profit First SystemOf Every Thousand Dollars, Only $150 Is Spendable — and Why That's the PointSelf-Financing Gear and Paying Yourself Back on a Payment PlanThe Sweetwater Rep Who Said You've Got a Lot of GearThe Business Side Doesn't Sound Like Fun Until It IsMatt's RANT!: Doing Things the Alternative WayLinks and Show Notes:Profit First — Mike Michalowicz (book)Profit First — Audiobook on Libro.fmWCA #133 with Alan EvansWCA #328 with Alan EvansWCA #576 with Alan EvansCredits: Guest: Ben Mellott Host/Engineer/Producer: Matt Boudreau WCA Theme Music: Cliff Truesdell The Voice: Chuck Smith
- 3 weeks ago1h 10m
WCA #612 with Brian Starley – Utah, Cartage, Building a Studio in LA, and Relationships Before Gear
For episode 612, Matt talks with Brian Starley recording and mixing engineer based in North Hollywood, California, and owner of Bergatron Music Studio. Brian grew up in Salt Lake City with a dad who transferred vinyl to cassette for the car, chased a hockey career to Ontario, came home to Utah without a plan, and found recording through a coworker who'd interned at the Blasting Room. After learning Pro Tools at twenty bucks an hour and getting out of Utah in 2005, he landed at Musicians Institute in LA and then at Lon Cohen Studio Rentals a cartage company where he spent six years moving Tim Pierce's guitars and Mike Elizondo's Logic rig around the city. After going freelance in 2013, he built a YouTube live session channel, had his busiest mixing years during COVID, and then spent the better part of two years fighting LA permits, tariffs, and a construction crew to build his dream studio — refinancing the house to do it. They talk about what cartage taught him about gear and sessions, the mobile recording revelation that shaped his whole approach, building a studio in 2025 LA, the stress that put him in the hospital with diverticulitis, and why you should focus on relationships before gear.In This Episode, We Discuss:- Growing Up in Salt Lake City, Utah — The Zion Curtain- A Dad Who Transferred Vinyl to Cassette and Filled the Car With Music- Hockey, Rage Against the Machine, and a Dream of the NHL- Moving to Shelburne, Ontario to Play Junior Hockey- Coming Home to Utah and Finding Construction Work for His Dad- A Coworker From the Blasting Room Who Changed Everything- Learning Pro Tools at Twenty Bucks an Hour on a Digi 001- Getting Into Trouble and Getting Out of Utah — Moving to LA in 2005- Musicians Institute and Finding the Path Into Recording- Landing at Lawn — a Cartage Company for LA's Top Session Musicians- Tim Pierce, Joe Chiccarelli, Abe Laboriel Sr., and What Cartage Taught Him- Mike Elizondo's Logic Rig and the Mobile Recording Revelation- Scab Dates, Church Choirs, and Recording With a Handful of Mics- Post Production School, Roger Nichols, and Getting Certified in Pro Tools- Going Freelance in 2013- Live Sessions at Custom Vintage Keys With JJ Blair and the Boba Jam Channel- The Decision to Build a Studio — and Reaching Out to Josh Nyback in 2023- Two and a Half Years of Permits, Hidden Fees, and LA Bureaucracy- Refinancing the House to Fund the Build- Tariffs, Construction Costs, and Watching the Budget Disappear- Supervising a General Contractor Who Didn't Know What a Studio Was- Isomax Clips, Green Glue, and Checking Every Screw- Diverticulitis in November From the Stress of the Build- His Wife Allie — The Person Who Got Them Through It- Crying in the Finished Room When They First Put the Speakers Up- California Disability Insurance for Freelancers — and the Scott McDowell Episode- You Don't Need All the Gear — Build Relationships First- Support the Ecosystem — Book Studios, Pay for MasteringMatt's RANT!: Things Matt Is DoingLinksBergatron MusicBrian Starley – Credits (Muso.ai)Brian Starley (Instagram)Brian Starley (TikTok)Bergatron Music – Studio Build Videos (YouTube)Josh Nyback – Nyback BuildsNyback Builds (Instagram)WCA #611 with Scott McDowell — California Disability InsuranceLibro.fm — AudiobooksFour Thousand Weeks — Oliver BurkemanM-DISC — WikipediaSteinberg SpectraLayersCredits:- Guest: Brian Starley- Host/Engineer/Produce
- Sep 1, 20261h 8m
WCA #611 with Scott McDowell – Berklee, California vs New York, Getting Fired, Becoming a Studio Partner, and Getting Hit by a Car
Scott McDowell is a producer, engineer, and co-owner of Wally's Hydeout at Hyde Street Studios in San Francisco. In episode 611 they talk about getting fired from his first SF internship, becoming a studio partner at Wally’s Hydeout, surviving COVID, getting hit by a car in March 2026, recovering from a TBI, and why every freelancer in California needs to sign up for state disability insurance before something happens.In This Episode, We Discuss:Co-owning a Studio, Making Records, and Working in Game AudioGrowing Up in Novato — North Marin CountyA Broadcast Engineer DadWorking Niners Games on the SidelineHeading to Berklee for TrumpetA Hernia That Ended the Trumpet Career and Started the Recording OneCity College SF, SF Soundworks, and Getting FiredJohn Vanderslice, Tiny Telephone, and the Referral to Justin PhelpsInterning at Hyde Street Studios With Justin Phelps and Jaimeson DurrFilling the Calendar for Six Months to Avoid Being Replaced — Then Getting Made a PartnerThe CDR Run That He Thought Was a FiringEight Years of Game AudioCOVID SurvivalGetting Hit by a Car in NorthridgeThe TBI, the Wheelchair, and Coming BackCalifornia Disability Insurance Elective Coverage — Why Every Freelancer Should Sign UpMatt's RANT!: AccumulationLinks and Show Notes:Fader Solo: https://fadersolo.com/California Disability Insurance Elective Coverage (EDD): https://edd.ca.gov/en/payroll_taxes/Disability_Insurance_Elective_Coverage/WCA #082 with Justin Phelps: https://www.workingclassaudio.com/wca-082-justin-phelps/WCA #211 with Jaimeson Durr: https://www.workingclassaudio.com/wca-211-with-jaimeson-durr/WCA #047 with John Vanderslice: https://www.workingclassaudio.com/wca-047-with-john-vanderslice/Credits:Guest: Scott McDowellHost/Engineer/Producer: Matt BoudreauWCA Theme Music: Cliff TruesdellThe Voice: Chuck Smith
- Aug 25, 202658 min
WCA #610 with Stephen Shirk – Bloomington, New York, Chicago, and Twenty Years of SHIRK Studios
For episode 610, Matt talks with Stephen Shirk — engineer, producer, guitarist, and owner of SHIRK Studios in Chicago's West Town neighborhood. Stephen grew up in Bloomington, Illinois, studied business at Miami University, moved to New York in 1998 with a friend's couch as his launch pad, and worked his way through the Hit Factory and a jingle house where he built Pro Tools systems, got his SAG card, and learned from Jay Messina. In 2004 he moved to Chicago, rented studio spaces for a decade, and in 2013 bought the building he now runs as a semi-commercial studio with a Sphere console, instruments on every wall, and a deliberately un-sterile feel. They talk about the HearYa live sessions that built his early reputation, word-of-mouth marketing and what comes next, Steve Albini and Electrical Audio, owning vs. renting in Chicago's studio ecosystem, and getting back out to shows.In This Episode, We Discuss:- Growing Up in Bloomington, Illinois- Church Choir, Guitar at Fourth Grade, and Early Bands- A Business Degree at Miami University and Playing in Bands- Moving to New York in 1998 With a Friend's Couch as a Launch Pad- Learning Pro Tools Version 4 on the Fly- Starting at the Hit Factory as a General Assistant- The Culture Shock of New York Speed — and Learning to Shut Up- Moving to a Jingle House: More Engineering, More Money, a Synclavier- Building Pro Tools Systems and Getting a Pager From the Boss- Learning From Jay Messina (Early Aerosmith, Jack Douglas)- Getting His SAG Card and Discovering Mailbox Money- Moving to Chicago in 2004 and Renting Studio Spaces- Buying the Building in 2013 and the History Behind It- SHIRK Studios: Semi-Commercial, Instruments on Every Wall- Avoiding the Sterile Studio — Guilford of Maine Walls and Why He Hates Them- Word of Mouth Marketing and Wondering What's Next- Chicago's Studio Scene: Narwhal, Brian Deck, and the DIY Wave- Steve Albini and Electrical Audio- Owning the Building vs. Renting — Lessons From Chicago Studios- Live-Work Lofts as an Option for Engineer-Owners- Getting Back Out to Shows and Reconnecting With the Scene- The Red Room: Chicago's Fifty-Cap DIY Listening Venue- Dana Nielsen Listening to the Episode and the Buttoned-Up BusinessMatt's RANT!: Getting the Job Done Part 2Links and Show Notes:- SHIRK Studios- WCA #363 with Chaz Root- WCA #137 with Anthony Gravino- WCA #607 with Dana Nielsen-WCA #164 with Steve AlbiniCredits:- Guest: Stephen Shirk- Host/Engineer/Producer: Matt Boudreau- WCA Theme Music: Cliff Truesdell- The Voice: Chuck Smith
- Aug 18, 20261h 13m
WCA #609 with Eric M Lichter – Martha's Vineyard, New York, Connecticut, and the Beauty Marks That Make a Record
For episode 609, Matt talks with Eric M Lichter — multi-instrumentalist, producer, and owner of Dirt Floor Recording in Connecticut, where he’s been in business for twenty years. Eric came up singing in chorus, spent time on Martha’s Vineyard playing the Hot Tin Roof and landing in Carly Simon’s living room with Danny Kortchmar and Jerry Marotta in the liner notes, then moved to New York, recorded at Sear Sound on a Polygram AR’s dime, and eventually landed back in Connecticut to open a studio on a wing and a prayer in 2006. They talk about the Ed Wood approach to recording — get the vibe before the moment is gone — why he leaves the beauty marks in, pitching a studio to 90-year-old landlords, keeping a tight ship with bankers hours, vetting clients for energy, a proposal-based pricing model, and the Caribou Ranch mentality that has everyone leaving with fresh eggs from the chickens out back.In This Episode, We Discuss:Twenty Years of Dirt Floor Recording in ConnecticutGrowing Up in a Sports-First Town and Finding His Voice in ChorusThe Soccer Coach Who Changed His LifeJohn Mayer, Keith Richards, and Goose — Connecticut’s Quiet Music SceneThe Hot Tin Roof on Martha’s Vineyard — and Carly Simon’s Living RoomDanny Kortchmar, Jerry Marotta, and Reading the Credits as a KidNew York City, Polygram, and Recording at Sear SoundFailing Guitar 101 in College and Trusting the Natural ThingThe Troubadour Years — Singer-Songwriter on the RoadWatching His Brother Make a Record With Jerry Marotta at JarysvilleDiscovering Tape Op and Saying Out Loud “I’m Going to Be in That Magazine”Starting Dirt Floor in Chester, Connecticut in 2006The Ed Wood Approach: Getting the Vibe Before the Moment Is GoneBeauty Marks — Why He Leaves the Imperfections InWhy Real Music Is Winning Against AIKids Discovering Van Halen and AC/DC on Their OwnEthan Johns, Jack Antonoff, Aaron Dessner — Who Inspired HimThe Rented House That Became Dirt Floor’s Current HomePitching a Studio to 90-Year-Old Landlords — and Winning Them OverKeeping Overhead Low — The Case for Renting vs. OwningVetting Artists: Why He Turns Down Projects That Drain the RoomBankers Hours: 9:30 to 5:30 and Going HomeOther Engineers Working Nights — The Studio Humming When He’s Not TherePricing by Proposal — Hourly, Day Rate, and Full Project BudgetThe Caribou Ranch Mentality — Full Hospitality for Artists Who StayEverybody Leaves With Eggs — The Dirt Floor SignatureIn This Episode, We Discuss:Twenty Years of Dirt Floor Recording in ConnecticutGrowing Up in a Sports-First Town and Finding His Voice in ChorusThe Soccer Coach Who Changed His LifeJohn Mayer, Keith Richards, and Goose — Connecticut’s Quiet Music SceneThe Hot Tin Roof on Martha’s Vineyard — and Carly Simon’s Living RoomDanny Kortchmar, Jerry Marotta, and Reading the Credits as a KidNew York City, Polygram, and Recording at Sear SoundFailing Guitar 101 in College and Trusting the Natural ThingThe Troubadour Years — Singer-Songwriter on the RoadWatching His Brother Make a Record With Jerry Marotta at JarysvilleDiscovering Tape Op and Saying Out Loud “I’m Going to Be in That Magazine”Starting Dirt Floor in Chester, Connecticut in 2006The Ed Wood Approach: Getting the Vibe Before the Moment Is GoneBeauty Marks — Why He Leaves the Imperfections InWhy Real Music Is Winning Against AIKids Discovering Van Halen and AC/DC on Their OwnEthan Johns, Jack Antonoff, Aaron Dessner — Who Inspired HimThe Rented House That Became Dirt Floor’s Current HomePitching a Studio to 90-Year-Old Landlords — and Winning Them OverKeeping Overhead Low — The Case for Renting vs. OwningVetting Artists: Why He Turns Down Projects That Drain the RoomBankers Hours: 9:30 to 5:30 and Going HomeOther Engineers Working Nights — The Studio Humming When He’s Not TherePricing by Proposal — Hourly, Day Rate, and Full Project BudgetThe Caribou Ranch Mentality — Full Hospitality for Artists Who StayEverybody Leaves With Eggs — The Dirt Floor SignatureMatt’s RANT!: Getting the Job Done!Links and Show Notes:Dirt Floor RecordingWCA #363 with Chaz Root<a href="https://www.workingclassaudio.com/wca-341-with-cynthia-daniels/" rel="noopener noreferrer" t
- Aug 10, 20261h 19m
WCA #608 with Julian Kindred – Canada, America, England, and Thirty-Five Years of Making Records
For episode 608, Matt talks with Julian Kindred — Canadian producer, engineer, and songwriter based in London, where he runs Nonsuch Park Studio in Epsom, Surrey. Julian grew up in St. John, New Brunswick — a working-class port city he describes as a place where people punched in all week and played blues in bars on the weekend — and found his way into recording through a part-time job at a music shop and access to synthesizers. Too broke for Berklee, he took a corporate function band gig that got him to Nashville, where he cold-called Music Row for a year and a half before landing a spot at Studio Nineteen. Ten years on Music Row followed, and then a move to London in 2003. They talk about what Nashville taught him about song craft and on-the-floor tracking, learning persistence in two different cultures, surviving a lull before the Ellie Goulding record turned things around, managing money as a freelancer, and why longevity attracts a different kind of client than talent alone ever did.In This Episode, We Discuss:- Growing Up in St. John, New Brunswick- "Sultans of Swing" as a Portrait of His Hometown- A Musical Family and a Father Who Taught Guitar- Keyboards at Eleven and a Part-Time Job at a Music Shop- Access to Synthesizers and the Recording Bug- Too Broke for Berklee — and the Corporate Function Band That Got Him to Nashville- Cold-Calling Music Row for a Year and a Half- Studio Nineteen: A Five-Week Course, a Trident Desk, and Patsy Cline's Living Room- Learning the Craft in Nashville's Legendary Rooms- What Ten Years on Music Row Taught Him About Song Craft- On-the-Floor Tracking: Finishing a Record in One Session- Nashville vs. London: Tracking Rooms, Production Rooms, and Culture- Moving to London in 2003 for a Woman — and Building a Career From Scratch- Learning Persistence in Two Different Cultures- The Lull, the Ellie Goulding Record, and the Comeback- Universal, Polydor, and Building a Repeat Client Base in the UK- Nonsuch Park Studio: A Purpose-Built Room in the Back of the Garden- Managing Money as a Freelancer: Living Below Your Means- Why Longevity Attracts a Different Kind of Client- The Conversations About You That You'll Never HearMatt's RANT!: Random ItemsLinks and Show Notes:- Julian Kindred- Nonsuch Park Studio- DriveDX- ExifTool- NeoFinderCredits:- Guest: Julian Kindred- Host/Engineer/Producer: Matt Boudreau- WCA Theme Music: Cliff Truesdell- The Voice: Chuck Smith
- Aug 4, 20261h 27m
WCA #607 with Dana Nielsen – Jazz School, System of a Down, SZA, and the Money Side of a Long Career
For episode 607, Matt talks with Dana Nielsen — Grammy-nominated producer, mixer, engineer, multi-instrumentalist, and founder of Mix Protégé in Los Angeles. Dana came up as a jazz saxophonist at Loyola University in New Orleans, where a Brian Blade album and a set of studio keys changed his direction. After chasing Daniel Lanois all the way to a phone call with Teatro and eventually moving to LA with no plan, he found his footing at Guitar Center on Sunset, caught a break on a System of a Down session with Dave Schiffman, and built a career in Rick Rubin's camp alongside Andrew Scheps, Greg Fidelman, and Philip Broussard. Now with 450+ credits and 30B+ streams, they talk about the unspoken rules of the studio hierarchy, keeping cool when everything goes wrong, running six albums at once, and the financial discipline (—SEP IRAs, 529s, and a high-yield savings habit—) that keeps a freelance life sustainable.In This Episode, We Discuss:- Musician First: Jazz Saxophone at Loyola University- The Brian Blade Fellowship Album That Changed Everything- Keys to the Studio: His First Real Recording Access- Growing Up Outside Chicago and Reading the Credits- Chasing Daniel Lanois: The Phone Call to Teatro- How That Call Became the First Chapter of a Friendship With Philip Broussard- Moving to LA With No Job and Landing at Guitar Center on Sunset- The Film Lot Engineer Who Told Him to Say What He Wanted- Learning to Read the Room and Raise His Hand- Breaking In: System of a Down With Dave Schiffman- Meeting Andrew Scheps- How Rick Rubin's Camp Became His World- The Unspoken Rules: Hierarchy, Knowing Your Role, and Keeping Notes- Passing Gems Up the Chain Without Stealing the Credit- How One Alliance Becomes the Next- Recording Justin Timberlake's Vocals With a Green Screen and No Metering- Keeping Cool When Everything Goes South in the Studio- Six Albums at Once: Managing Multiple Projects With ClickUp- Client Management With Dubsado and Automating the Paperwork- Feast or Famine: How He Structures the Money- SEP IRAs, High-Yield Savings, and a 529 From Day One- Buying Gear as a Tax-Deductible Investment That Appreciates- The Financial Advisor Who Got Them Into Their Culver City Home- Telling People What You Want — From the Studio to the Rent CheckMatt's RANT!: Taking Stock of Our ProfessionLinks and Show Notes:- Dana Nielsen- Mix Protégé- Dana Nielsen (Instagram)- WCA #294 with McKay Garner- WCA #590 with Phillip Broussard- WCA #398 with Dave Schiffman- ClickUp- DubsadoCredits:- Guest: Dana Nielsen- Host/Engineer/Producer: Matt Boudreau- WCA Theme Music: Cliff Truesdell- The Voice: Chuck Smith
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About Working Class Audio
Peel back the glamour of the professional recording world. Guests from the world of audio for music, film, games, restoration, and more share their insights on how they made their journey, how they survive, their advice on the real things including wins, losses, working with other people, money, and career advice. Hosted by audio engineer Matt Boudreau. The Working Class Audio Podcast - Navigating the World of Recording with a working class perspective.
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