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by Excess Returns
Excess Returns is dedicated to making you a better long-term investor and making complex investing topics understandable. Join Jack Forehand, Justin Carbonneau and Matt Zeigler as they sit down with some of the most interesting names in finance to discuss topics like macroeconomics, value investing, factor investing, and more.
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- 2 days ago1h 2m
They Beat All US Stock Funds Since 2003 | Michael Baron on the AI Winners Investors Miss
Michael Baron of Baron Capital explains his case for AI beneficiaries beyond the biggest tech stocks, including software companies the market fears will be disrupted. He joins Matt Zeigler and Justin Carbonneau to discuss how competitive advantages, management quality, and a long investment horizon shape the firm's growth portfolios.Baron Capital's co-president and portfolio manager walks through the firm's investments in Tesla and SpaceX, from vertical integration and autonomous driving to reusable rockets, Starlink, and the potential for AI infrastructure in space. He also explains why proprietary data may strengthen some software businesses, how the firm manages positions as winners grow, and what would make him sell. The conversation closes with lessons from Ron Baron on curiosity, primary research, and building conviction.Topics covered:Finding growth opportunities across technology, financial services, real estate, and consumer businessesWhy Michael Baron believes some apparent AI losers could become beneficiariesProprietary data and the investment cases for Shopify, Guidewire, FactSet, MSCI, and GartnerTesla's evolution, energy business, and the potential economics of autonomy and softwareSpaceX's reusable rockets, Starlink, and Michael Baron's vision for AI infrastructure in spaceValuing businesses over a long horizon and assessing reliance on key leadersLessons from Ron Baron and the importance of management relationships during market stressLetting winners run while managing concentration, leverage, and portfolio correlationsDistinguishing portfolio trims from selling when a competitive advantage deterioratesWhy Michael Baron believes AI will increase the importance of investment judgmentLearn more about Baron Capital:https://www.baroncapitalgroup.com/Chapters:00:00 Michael Baron on finding growth beyond technology04:16 AI disruption and the opportunity in software10:54 Tesla, Elon Musk, and vertical integration18:33 Long-term valuation and key-person risk23:28 SpaceX, Starlink, and AI infrastructure in space34:11 Lessons from Ron Baron and the firm's future40:08 Evaluating management and competitive advantages47:11 Time as an edge and managing growing positions54:11 When to trim a position and when to sell58:11 Curiosity, primary research, and convictionLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.
- 4 days ago50 min
The Game Was Rigged in Their Favor. 28% Went Bust Anyway | Kris Abdelmessih on How to Size Bets
How much of your portfolio does a good investment idea deserve? Kris Abdelmessih of Moontower joins Matt Zeigler to explain why having an edge is only part of the decision: position size can determine whether favorable odds translate into long-term growth or damaging losses.Through a coin-flipping experiment and everyday examples, Kris makes the Kelly Criterion accessible without a complicated derivation. The conversation explores the difference between expected returns and compounded wealth, why growth-maximizing bets can still be uncomfortable, and how uncertain probabilities make a case for betting less. From portfolio decisions to insurance and extended warranties, the goal is to build better intuition about how much risk to take.Topics covered:How a favorable coin-flipping game exposed costly mistakes in bet sizingWhy maximizing the expected payoff of one bet differs from maximizing long-term compounded growthHow oversized bets can undermine an otherwise profitable opportunityThe Kelly Criterion's three inputs: probability of winning, probability of losing, and payoffWhy a constant percentage of your bankroll means changing the dollar amount after wins and lossesHow different payoffs change the appropriate size of a betApplying the framework to hypothetical self-insurance and extended-warranty decisionsWhy full Kelly can involve substantial drawdowns, and the tradeoffs of fractional KellyWorking backward from a position size to the odds needed to justify itAllowing for uncertainty in your estimates and preserving capital for future opportunitiesThe essay behind this conversation:After this post you will be sizing bets in your headhttps://www.panoptica.com/after-this-post-you-will-be-sizing-bets-in-your-head/Research discussed:Rational Decision-Making Under Uncertainty: Observed Betting Patterns on a Biased Coinhttps://arxiv.org/abs/1701.01427Kris Abdelmessih's Moontower newsletter:https://moontower.substack.com/Moontower:https://moontower.ai/Kris Abdelmessih on X:https://x.com/KrisAbdelmessihChapters:00:00 Position sizing and the favorable coin-flip experiment04:45 Why a good bet can produce bad outcomes13:49 The Kelly Criterion formula explained18:10 Adjusting your bankroll and accounting for the payoff23:03 Applying Kelly to a self-insurance decision30:25 Full Kelly, drawdowns, and reasons to bet less34:59 Working backward from bet size and evaluating warranties41:09 Volatility drag, uncertain odds, and the experiment's results46:09 How much capital does your edge deserve?Learn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.
- 1 weeks ago1h 13m
We Asked the Data Journalist Who Rebuilt the Jobs Report What the Headline Number Hides
What are headline jobs and inflation numbers missing about the economy investors actually face? Eric Pachman of Data 4 The People joins Matt Zeigler to examine how a changing workforce, rising fuel costs, and differences in household spending could affect inflation, consumer demand, and corporate margins.Using interactive data tools, Eric looks beneath monthly payroll reports, maps changes in America's labor force, and traces how diesel prices can work their way into retail prices. He also shares a grocery-price study that challenged his own assumptions about CPI and explains how he is using AI to make rigorous data journalism more accessible.Topics covered:Why monthly jobs reports need context, including survey uncertainty and revisionsHow to spot unusual industry-level payroll changes and assess the quality of jobs addedWhat county-level labor force trends reveal about aging and rural AmericaEric Pachman's research on foreign-born workers and the limits of replacement assumptionsHow a shrinking supply of workers could create pressure on service pricesHow diesel costs flow through freight surcharges, retailer margins, and consumer pricesWhat to watch for in retailer earnings calls as companies weigh price increasesWhy household income, driving habits, and spending patterns change the experience of inflationWhat Eric Pachman's Kroger study found about CPI, the Thrifty Food Plan, and store brandsUsing AI to test assumptions and expand access to data journalismExplore Eric Pachman's research and interactive tools:https://www.data4thepeople.com/The Men Who Vanished: Testing Labor Market Displacementhttps://www.data4thepeople.com/p/the-men-who-vanishedHow do the government's grocery prices stack up against the real ones?https://www.data4thepeople.com/p/kroger-shelf-vs-cpi-thrifty-food-plan/Chapters:00:00 Introduction and Data 4 The People's mission09:20 Spotting unusual changes in the jobs data18:27 Mapping America's changing labor force27:00 Foreign-born workers, aging, and labor supply34:51 Energy costs and the path to consumer inflation47:49 Why your inflation experience differs from CPI56:12 Personal inflation tools and testing grocery prices1:02:36 AI, data journalism, and challenging your own bias1:11:17 Where to find Eric Pachman's work and toolsLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.
- 1 weeks ago59 min
He Lost $157,000 in 3 Minutes | Jack Raines on the Lesson Winning Never Taught Him
Jack Raines turned $6,000 into roughly $400,000 trading SPACs, then lost $157,000 in three minutes after taking a very different bet. The author of Young Money joins Matt Zeigler to discuss what that experience taught him about investing risk, the urge to chase more, and the time a growing portfolio can cost you.The conversation follows Jack Raines from SPAC warrants and market narratives to a broader question: how do you allocate money, time, and risk to build a life you actually want? They explore the limits of a trading edge, why cheap stocks can get cheaper, and how debt, career choices, and status shape the decisions investors make beyond their portfolios.Young Money: A Field Guide to Wealth and Purpose in Your Twentieshttps://amzn.to/4AtUsDoJack Raines' Young Money newsletterhttps://www.youngmoney.co/Jack Raines on Xhttps://twitter.com/Jack_RainesTopics covered:How Jack Raines grew his Roth IRA through SPAC warrants and pre-merger common shares, and why those positions carried different risks.Why an edge in one corner of the market did not translate into a successful concentrated earnings bet.How a million-dollar target and constant account checking changed Jack Raines' relationship with money and time.What SEC filings, Discord research, and market narratives contributed to his trading process.Why Jack Raines bought Figma after questioning the market's AI narrative and speaking with designers.Applying portfolio thinking to careers, creative projects, and opportunities that change with each stage of life.Weighing retirement saving against other opportunities, and why Jack Raines treats expensive debt as a constraint on taking risks.Escaping the "someday" trap while giving long-term venture investments time to develop.Combining steady income and index funds with independent bets, while treating status as a tool rather than a goal.Why Jack Raines believes investors learn about risk through experience, with stakes they can afford to recover from.Timestamps:00:00 Jack Raines on the lessons of losing money04:57 Inside the SPAC trades and the $157,000 loss15:16 Separating market hype from downside math22:18 Building a life with portfolio principles29:45 Retirement saving, trading obsession, and the cost of time36:56 Debt, freedom, and the trap of waiting for someday44:33 Venture investing: acting quickly and waiting patiently51:03 Using status without making it the goal56:08 The investing lesson experience has to teachLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.
- 1 weeks ago55 min
The AI Gap Is Closing | Jason Hsu on China, Momentum Crashes and the S&P’s Seven-Stock Bet
Jason Hsu, founder and CIO of Rayliant Global Advisors and co-founder of Research Affiliates, joins Excess Returns to discuss the US-China AI race, the economics of AI spending, and what market concentration means for investors. We explore China's energy and open source advantages, opportunities in Chinese stocks, and how factor investing and machine learning can help build more diversified portfolios.Rayliant Global Advisorshttps://rayliant.comRayliant on Xhttps://twitter.com/rayliantTopics covered:Why Jason believes AI safety requires cooperation between the US and ChinaHow Chinese AI models are closing the gap with US developersChina's electricity infrastructure and the competitive threat from open source AIWhere AI profits could accrue across hardware, energy, models and applicationsHow chip restrictions are encouraging China to develop domestic capabilitiesWhy retail trading creates opportunities and challenges for factor investors in ChinaChinese technology companies, dividend-paying state enterprises and US-China tradeThe AI spending arms race and the concentration risk facing S&P 500 investorsMomentum crashes, value cycles and how Rayliant uses machine learning to combine factorsWhy advisors' greatest contribution may be helping clients find meaning in their wealthTimestamps:00:00 Jason Hsu on AI competition and safety04:00 How close are Chinese AI models to the US?08:25 China's energy advantage and open source economics14:12 Who captures AI profits, and can China catch up in chips?18:41 Chinese stocks, retail trading and speculation24:01 China's overlooked opportunities and dividend stocks28:05 US-China interdependence and the AI spending arms race33:24 The AI concentration hiding in the S&P 50037:25 Momentum crashes, value cycles and factor performance41:54 Machine learning and building multifactor portfolios48:46 Financial advisors, Jack Bogle and having enough53:23 Why inefficient markets do not make alpha easyLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.
- 2 weeks ago1h 1m
David Rosenberg on Why He Wants the Bonds Everyone Hates — and Where He's Hiding in Stocks
David Rosenberg returns to Excess Returns to explain his bullish case for Treasury bonds, why he expects inflation and economic growth to slow, and the risks he sees in an AI-driven stock market. The Rosenberg Research founder joins Matt Zeigler to discuss consumer spending, Federal Reserve policy, gold, international stocks, and how he translates his economic outlook into a diversified portfolio.Recorded September 16, 2026, before the Federal Reserve's policy announcement.David Rosenberg on Twitterhttps://twitter.com/EconguyRosieRosenberg Researchhttps://www.rosenbergresearch.com/Topics covered:Why Rosenberg believes markets have priced in too much Fed tightening and Treasury bonds offer an opportunityWhy he views higher oil prices as a tax on consumers rather than evidence of sustained, broad-based inflationHow slowing wage growth, falling savings, and the stock market wealth effect shape consumer spendingHow Treasury issuance changes and potential post-election fiscal gridlock could support bondsWhy AI exposure extends beyond technology stocks into utilities, industrials, and other sectorsWhere he sees opportunities in healthcare, consumer staples, pipelines, European stocks, and AsiaHis model portfolio's allocation to equities, bonds, cash, and commoditiesHow gold, central bank buying, and a bearish dollar outlook fit his investment thesisWhy he is positioning for slower growth without making recession his base caseWhat working with portfolio managers taught him about cutting losses and separating conviction from stubbornnessTimestamps:00:00 Rosenberg's portfolio approach and the Treasury opportunity05:58 Why an oil shock can weaken consumer spending10:52 Jobs, wages, and the stock market wealth effect17:35 Fiscal stimulus, Treasury issuance, and the bond outlook22:53 AI concentration risk beyond technology stocks27:10 Why he owns European and Asian equities31:16 Inside his 50% stocks, 30% bonds model portfolio36:43 Betting against the inflation consensus42:41 Gold, central bank reserves, and a weaker dollar48:56 Recession watch and bear market risks for 202753:10 AI correlations and the risks of being fully invested58:27 Cutting losses and knowing when conviction becomes stubbornnessLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.
- 2 weeks ago55 min
Franklin Templeton CEO Jenny Johnson on AI, Private Markets, and the Hidden Risks in Index Funds
Franklin Templeton CEO Jenny Johnson joins Matt Zeigler to explore how AI, blockchain tokenization, and private markets are reshaping investing and asset management. They discuss what these changes mean for individual investors, from personalized portfolios and access to private companies to the concentration risks hiding in passive index funds. Jenny also shares lessons from her journey from intern to CEO, why financial advisors still matter, and why starting early remains her most important investing lesson.Franklin Templetonhttps://www.franklintempleton.comTopics covered:Why AI could create new industries and why learning to use it matters for young professionalsHow Franklin Templeton uses AI agents and why investment decisions still require human judgmentBuilding personalized portfolios around retirement, college savings, and other financial goalsHow blockchain, smart contracts, and instant settlement could reduce financial transaction costsTokenized money market funds, digital wallets, and the obstacles to bringing ETFs on-chainWhy companies stay private longer and what investors miss when they only own public stocksPrivate credit, illiquidity, and the trade-offs involved in expanding access to private marketsHow mega IPOs, AI spending, and changing index composition can increase portfolio concentrationBalancing shareholders, employees, and clients while investing in a company's long-term futureThe value of financial advisors, staying invested, and giving compounding time to workTimestamps:00:00 Jenny Johnson's leadership lessons and path from intern to CEO06:41 AI job disruption and lessons from earlier technology revolutions10:42 How young analysts use AI and where personalized investing is heading15:44 Human judgment, AI agents, and the future of asset management20:17 How tokenization could lower costs and expand financial access24:39 Why blockchain adoption is slow and how tokenized ETFs work29:58 Private company growth, investor access, and liquidity trade-offs35:20 Mega IPOs, index concentration, and the risks of AI spending41:23 Franklin Templeton's family legacy and investing for the next generation46:18 Why financial advisors matter and why investors should start early51:32 Jenny's hands-on experiments with AI toolsLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.
- 2 weeks ago1h 1m
Jim Paulsen on the Weakening Economy, Tech Bear Market Risk and the Bull Market Built on Fear
Jim Paulsen joins Jack Forehand and Matt Zeigler on the latest Jim Paulsen Show to explore why booming AI earnings may be masking a weakening U.S. economy, and what that means for stocks, bonds, and Federal Reserve policy. Using 27 charts, he examines stalled job creation, rising oil prices, growing reliance on debt to finance AI investment, and why he expects a sharper correction in technology than in the broader S&P 500.Subscribe to the Jim Paulsen Show on SpotifySubscribe to the Jim Paulsen Show on Apple PodcastsTopics covered:Why strong S&P 500 earnings hide a widening divide between technology, energy, and the remaining seven sectors.Why low unemployment claims may offer false comfort when job creation has stalled.Jim's job market misery index and what it suggests about the case for Fed easing.How business investment and employment have broken their historical relationship.Why weak real disposable income, low savings, and higher oil prices threaten consumer spending.How fading economic momentum could push Treasury yields lower despite renewed inflation fears.Why a shrinking wall of worry could remove an important source of support for stocks.What growth stock leadership, household purchasing power, and ISM services data reveal about market risk.How debt-funded AI spending and widening credit spreads change the risks facing technology companies.Why extreme stock outperformance versus bonds could matter for portfolio allocation.The difference between rising profits per worker and sustainable economic productivity.Why Jim expects a tech bear market but a more moderate correction in the broader S&P 500.Timestamps:00:00 Why oil, rates, and tight policy worry Jim05:43 The three-way split hiding beneath strong earnings09:58 Why low jobless claims may be misleading16:18 When business investment stops creating jobs20:48 Can consumer spending outrun real income?26:01 How the wall of worry has supported stocks31:44 Investor complacency and a shift toward growth fears36:58 The disconnect between Main Street and Wall Street41:35 AI debt financing, credit spreads, and the case for bonds47:25 Investment per worker and the yield curve's earnings warning51:52 Profit productivity versus real economic productivity58:08 Why Jim expects a tech bear market and a broader correctionLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.
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About Excess Returns
Excess Returns is dedicated to making you a better long-term investor and making complex investing topics understandable. Join Jack Forehand, Justin Carbonneau and Matt Zeigler as they sit down with some of the most interesting names in finance to discuss topics like macroeconomics, value investing, factor investing, and more.
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