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by Roger Walsh and John Dupuy
Deep Transformation offers dialogues with cutting-edge thinkers, artists, contemplatives, and activists who combine big-picture, integrative perspectives with profound, contemplative depths. With these remarkable people, we explore the great questions of our time, such as how best to live, and how best to heal, learn, create, and contribute in our era of unprecedented challenges and opportunities.
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Ep. 238 | In this brilliantly articulated and illuminating conversation, renowned international facilitator Thomas Hübl shares his deep understanding of the dynamics of collective trauma as well as practical wisdom about how we can heal the large, often inherited, wounds we carry. Thomas conveys the magnitude of problems created by shoving our collective wounds out of sight and mind, perhaps the worst consequence of which is when we do this, we are destined to repeat the same horrors over again. What we need, Thomas explains, is to develop an architecture that would provide a healing space to deal with our wounds (racism, genocide, and immigration, to name a few). Meeting our collective pain in this way would allow us to mature to a level of forgiveness where we could collaborate globally on urgent issues like AI and climate change. Without this healing, Thomas says, the energy that can forgive remains frozen in the wound.The dialogue becomes profoundly hopeful as Thomas describes someone who has met their pain and healed themselves of individual and collective trauma. Listening is like receiving a transmission—for a moment we feel ourselves to be this person: integrated, authentic, vulnerable, fully attuned to our reality, at peace with both the beauty and the difficulties, free of false hopes and unrealistic dreams. If we could embrace the power of collective healing that Thomas has witnessed again and again in his work, and “melt the permafrost of our collective trauma,” we could step out of the never-ending cycle of violence, cruelty, and misunderstanding that will otherwise continue to haunt us. This conversation goes right to the heart of things: if we recognize our interrelatedness and find a way to practice interdependence, we can grow beyond our individual and collective pain into a tremendously more hopeful future. Recorded October 30, 2025.“Unconscious information is destiny. Conscious information has a choice, has a future.”Topics & Time StampsIntroducing teacher, author & facilitator Thomas Hübl, who offers a deep understanding of collective trauma—and collective healing How is Thomas able to stay attuned and hold this large field he works with? Attunement is another way to say interdependence A grounded spiritual practice helps to hold the space & learn from the process, rather than direct the process How does Thomas understand the healing process? Bringing awareness to a collective wound allows it to give its gift Has Thomas found a way of working with the Israel/Gaza situation? Hot trauma is different from historical or ancestral trauma Without processes to deal with large wounds, the repetition compulsion will keep happening How to deal with authoritarian regimes whitewashing history? Huge trauma wounds in the U.S.: racism, genocide, and now immigration We need a collective healing space; everybody who is alive has been born into this legacy and it has become normalized In this global village, there is no “them” anymore Cultural amnesia allows us to live with violence; nonviolence is a natural consequence of realizing interdependence Ethics and health are inherently interrelated You cannot erase history; it’s a felt experience in our bodies The exaggeration of separation & self-righteousness by social media The reality we create with each other is painful; hope lies in a sense of agency How can we forgive horrific violations of life? Melting the permafrost of our collective trauma What does a person look like who has faced these deep issues and healed? The power of healing collectives is very hopeful for accelerating social transformation Resources & ReferencesThomas Hübl’s website: https://thomashuebl.com/Thomas Hübl’s podcast: Point of RelationThomas Hübl, <a href="https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/healing-collective-trauma-thomas-hubl/1136012551?ean=9781649630544" rel="noopener noref
Ep. 237 | In the 19th dialogue of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, an exploration of the final chapter of The Inner Journey Home, Hameed Ali looks at the evolution of Western culture and how it happened that soul, world, and God became divided as the culture developed. Hameed explains this was a necessary evolutionary step, an inherent part of our development, and though we lost our spiritual footing in the process (with secularization came a “gaping emptiness, meaninglessness, a lack of true fulfillment”), the separation of science and Church freed science and later psychology to take off on their own trajectories, leading to great strides in our understanding of our physical world and psychological make-up. The secularization of society turned out to have plenty of benefits, including improving the physical and economic well-being of many. But where does that leave us now, and what does the future hold? Will there be an integration of these disparate parts, where spiritual ground becomes a foundational piece of our next stage of evolution? Can the scientific perspective, with its precision and clarity of mind, be brought to bear on our inner life of spiritual inquiry as well as the outer nature of reality? In realizing that our soul needs life’s encounters to mature—meditation alone is not enough—will we find the lost “pearl beyond price” individually and possibly collectively or in small groups? Hameed concludes by telling us that the Diamond Approach is about redeeming the mind: integrating the diamond clarity of the intellect with spiritual depth. He shares his vision of fully realized scientists merging a spiritual perspective with precise and penetrating inquiry, and ends with the wish for all human beings to know: “People who are listening… it’s possible for you.” Recorded June 11, 2026.“The spiritual ground that science doesn’t deal with is needed to complete the story.”Topics & Time StampsIntroducing dialogue #19 in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, in which Hameed Ali explores the final chapter of The Inner Journey Home The development of Western culture & the idea that soul, God, and world are separate The separation of God, soul & world was a necessary evolutionary step This secularization of society allowed the scientific point of view to develop The bifurcation happened also in the field of psychology, especially with the influence of Freud Our inherent spirit of inquiry came to be applied to the outer world instead of the inner; with secularism, the spiritual perspective was left behind With secularization came meaninglessness; capitalism & communism focused on economics Will integration happen? Can secularization find its spiritual depth? What does the future hold? Hameed thinks humanity’s enlightenment is a LONG way off Valuing autonomy is an outer reflection of the valuing of the uniqueness of the individual, the pearl beyond price Gurdjieff thought humans don’t live long enough to grow spiritually Finding the lost pearl: the soul matures through encounters in life—not just in meditation The complete pearl integrates the compassion, love & intelligence of boundless awareness: the personalization of the absolute What are the possibilities of developing a cultural pearl or a species pearl? The Fermi paradox, the future, AI, and the importance of personal experience Can we teach AI to make truth the #1 priority? Roger reads the epilogue of The Inner Journey Home, a beautiful distillation of the soul’s journey Having a few spiritual individuals living their true nature is what keeps humanity alive Redeeming the mind: this teaching integrates the diamond clarity of the intellect with spiritual depth Hameed’s wish for all human beings Resources & ReferencesA. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School<a href="https://online.diamondapproach.org/?ref=15&utm_source=affiliate&%20utm_campaign=iawake" rel="noope
Ep. 236 | In The Call of the Cosmos, cosmologist and astronomer Stephan Martin brings a new and revelatory perspective into play on Deep Transformation, sharing his profound knowledge of the evolving cosmos and its relationship with consciousness. To cover the immensity of the mystery we are involved in, Steve explains, we need to look at both the inner dimension—consciousness—and the outer mystery, the cosmos. Steve does a remarkable job of explaining the psychological, spiritual, and ethical implications of living in an evolving universe, and draws fascinating parallels between cosmic evolution and human evolution, and the manifestation of being and cosmos. Steve teaches that we can expand the concept of self from separate, small self to ecological self to planetary self, and beyond—to cosmic self.Steve says the fundamental essence of the universe is creativity, and invites us to heed the call of the cosmos and align ourselves with cosmic creativity by expressing the whole through our individual modes of being. “What is the causal cosmic chain that leads to our allurement to do a certain thing?” he asks, adding, “13.8 billion years of cosmic evolution have led to this moment.” The universe is participatory, Steve has discovered, and we live in a relational reality. Put on your paradigm shifting hat for this lively, wise, and impassioned conversation. Your relationship with the cosmos will be illuminated for sure, and quite possibly entirely transformed. Steve is also a gifted author; you can explore more in his books Cosmic Conversations, This Playful Universe, Becoming the Change, and soon, Traveling in the Shadow of the Moon. Recorded August 21, 2025.“If you look at the universe through telescopes, you see stars and galaxies… However, if you engage in a relationship with the universe through, say, devotional or contemplative practices, you discover other qualities.”Topics & Time StampsIntroducing astronomer & cosmologist Stephan Martin, author of Cosmic Conversations and This Playful Universe The relationship between cosmos and consciousness What does it mean to be part of an evolving, dynamic universe? Einstein’s “greatest blunder” The emergence of complexity theory & the idea of the self-determining universe Thomas Berry’s 1st universal dynamic: differentiation; every being is a unique mode of the universe Is consciousness an emergent part of the universe? Thomas Berry’s 2nd dynamic: subjectivity The universe is participatory What quantum theory brings crashing down is the idea of a static universe; reality is relational Cosmic leadership: the intuitive callings we feel… do they come from the universe? The earth is what’s in charge here and, by extension, the cosmos is what’s in charge What is the causal cosmic chain that leads to a creative impulse? Expanding the concept of self to a cosmic dimension The fundamental essence of the universe is creativity; the cosmic imperative is aligning with that Are ethics a mind-made construction, or are they tied with something deeper? Thomas Berry’s third dynamic: the principle of communion The concept of ego is Newtonian static cosmology internalized The manifestation of being parallels the manifestation of the cosmos Are we living in a multiverse? What does the universe desire? Are we living in an AI simulation? Is our universe a hologram? Is there life on other planets? What types of “life” haven’t we considered yet? Looking for other humans to talk to: the era of cosmic loneliness What is the current edge for cosmologists? Stephan’s new books: Becoming the Change with Carol Kilby & Traveling in the Shadow of the Moon (available for pre-order) Resources & ReferencesStephan Martin, director of the Deeptime Leadership ProgramStephan Martin, <a href="htt
Ep. 235 | In the 18th dialogue of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali delves into the fascinating subject of how the physical world is related to the absolute. From a nondual perspective, reality includes the physical world, he explains; the world cannot be reduced to an illusion. Material reality is every bit as compelling as the spiritual perspective, he continues. How we perceive it depends on where we find our stance, what we are immersed in—in the formless or the world of form. Hameed recognizes and honors physical reality, while describing material objects as expressions, or glimmerings, of the ground of being—the physical and the ground of being inseparable, whether pure presence or pure emptiness.And how does the relationship between creator and creation relate to the individual? Hameed presents his mystical theology: a triadic reality formed by God, the individual, and the physical world, where each maintains its own truth. Because the absolute is inherently not self-aware, it needs an individual to become aware of itself, he explains. We are its “knowing instruments.” Hameed’s mystical theology, establishing the relationship between the human being, the world, and God, or true nature, is both elevating and grounding, enlightening and somehow comforting. The essential puzzle pieces of reality fitted together, creating unity. From atoms and quarks to what happens after death and how all dimensions can possibly exist in exquisite harmony when there is so much disharmony in the world, this conversation is far ranging, stimulating, and punctuated with laughter, as Hameed, Roger, and John continue to explore The Inner Journey Home. Recorded May 14, 2026.“When we experience the absolute, we see it as the truth of everything, the nature of everything—all are glimmerings of the absolute.”Topics & Time StampsIntroducing dialogue #18 in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, an exploration of the chapter titled “Reality” in Hameed’s magnum opus, The Inner Journey Home Hameed explains how the Path of Love Series relates to the The Inner Journey Home/Wisdom Series Seeing the physical world from the perspective of the absolute Why do we experience the world as so very solid? From the absolute perspective, material objects are glimmerings of the ground of being From the scientific perspective, the physical world is “rock-level real” The physical world should not be reduced to an illusion; it has properties that cannot be denied In the physical world, death means no longer alive; spiritually, death is a transformation Does the individual soul continue after death? Why isn’t everyone awakened if we’re all part of the absolute? Standing in the absolute, all dimensions are inseparable, existing in exquisite harmony, but this does not negate people’s experience of disharmony The absolute is inherently not self-aware, that’s why it needs an individual to become aware of itself The divine coma is the entry to the absolute The relationship between the human being, the world, and God Is there a personal God? You can be an individual without being separate God fulfillment & soul fulfillment are one and the same The concept of service has many stages Hameed’s mystical theology: a triadic reality, each with its own truth The dimension of energy Reality appears differently from different perspectives; this teaching is from the nondual perspective Dzogchen & Hameed both give an inherent meaning to life; traditions espousing illusion do not Individual creativity gives voice to the creativity of the universe Resources & ReferencesA. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of <a href="https://online.diamondapproach.org/catalog/
Ep. 234 | Renowned thought leader, speaker, and prolific author Warren Farrell has a passion for getting the truth out about issues that matter deeply—issues with enormous human consequences that might begin to heal if people better understood the forces driving these trends: the boy crisis, fatherlessness, the cultural tendency to vilify men, and the lack of healthy and effective communication between men and women. Warren has authored several data-driven bestselling books that go right to the heart of these matters, and in this conversation his expertise is clearly evident, right alongside his dedication to do everything he can to shift the evolution of the harmful idea that women are good but men are bad.Warren has put himself on the line time and again to stand up for fatherless boys. He puts out a clarion call to couples to communicate with care, so that a father can be involved with the raising of a child, and in his books and workshops, Warren offers concrete steps to minimize children’s trauma, such as his four must-do’s after a divorce and the caring and sharing practices he teaches couples around accepting criticism without getting defensive. Immensely insightful, immensely practical, Warren points the way forward through a territory that has become murky, difficult, and hateful. Guaranteed, you will learn things about our contemporary culture you didn’t know before, and be inspired to do what you can to heal the disastrous divide between the sexes. Recorded September 25, 2025.“We’re all in this together. We’re all in the same family boat.”Topics & Time StampsIntroducing Warren Farrell, outstanding feminist, intellectual father of the men’s movement, champion of gender role innovations & prolific author How did Warren come to champion the women’s movement? The opposite of power & privilege: what men are giving up Toxic masculinity Why do men commonly trade put-downs? Misinterpreting male behavior & the need for dialogue between men & women Sexual harassment and the “believe women letter” After a divorce, the child’s needs need to come first Speaking up about the importance of father involvement in raising boys changed Warren’s professional trajectory Death from overwork, called kuroshi in Japan Fatherless children have issues in 55 different areas, and the biggest predictor of male suicide is lack of father involvement The idea that women are good, men are bad Biological effects of lack of father involvement 4 must-do’s after divorce to minimize children’s trauma Rough-housing is a gift A father’s unconditional love incorporates conditions Teasing, one of the 7 important contributions that fathers make Couples counseling: why is criticism so hard to handle? Teaching couples to communicate effectively is the most important way to prevent the boy crisis The relation between dad-deprived youth, gang membership, prison & being a victim of sexual molestation The worst thing you can do after a divorce The biggest hole in my heart and the best decision of my life: John Lennon The ramifications of dad-deprivation in 1965 and currently A closer look at gender differences in income The feminist argument against Warren When only one sex wins, both sexes lose What can men do to help boys? We need to work toward equality while recognizing our evolutionary differences Our bias about men being full-time dads Important skills Warren teaches in his Role Mate to Soul Mate book & his online course Warren’s current book-in-progress, The Man Crisis Roger’s summary of the extraordinary impact Warren has had on our culture Resources & ReferencesWarren Farrell’s website, https://warrenfar
Ep. 233 | In the last episode of the Path of Love Series with A. H. Almaas, Hameed explores the themes he introduced in the later chapters of his new book, The Inner Beloved. Hameed clarifies the role of mind on the path of heart (the mind is bedazzled and awed; the heart open), and details what happens when we reach the beloved, like “falling in love with everything” and experiencing the absolute as a “coming home” (even though there’s no one there!). We learn that, on the path of love, no matter what we do or don’t do, a heart-driven force beyond the mind is pulling us onward. Once we arrive, we realize the beloved has always been there—which is why our heart has been longing for the beloved all along.Hameed explains that on the path of love, nonduality becomes intimacy—reality itself is pure intimacy, he says—and in fact, the nonbeingness of the beloved is the ultimate truth of reality. In a state of mystical poverty, we discover that all we are and have ever been has been borrowed from the beloved. The culmination of this Path of Love Series ends very beautifully, the love and intimacy of the beloved pervading Hameed’s words and the images he conjures for us. “The world is simply the luminosity of the beloved,” Hameed says. In listening to him, we share in some of the wonderful sense of coming home he experienced, a little of the radiant luminosity, too, and his own ongoing excitement over the ever unfolding mystery of the divine. Recorded April 9, 2026.“We can be in the lap of the beloved and still enjoy life—loving everything from that place.”Topics & Time StampsIntroducing the 4th dialogue in the Path of Love Series with A. H. Almaas, focusing on the role of mind and the culmination of the path On the path of love you are heart-driven by forces that mind cannot fathom Hameed’s experience of falling in love with everything and experiencing the absolute as if “coming home” The mind is bedazzled by the Mystery and recognizes its limitation in relation to the heart When you get there, you realize the beloved has always been there Emptiness beyond normal emptiness: Hameed calls this “absence” The great liberation: where there’s nothing more to dissolve As we are pulled, the love deepens & intensifies; we drown in the passion Mystical poverty: the soul recognizes all of its qualities are borrowed from the beloved What is right relationship between the realized heart and a healthy mind? Krishnamurti would talk about no mind—but he was always using mind Cutting through illusion & Hameed’s transmission from Manjushri True mind: knowing in the moment Dissolving dichotomies into wholeness: the world is simply the luminosity of the beloved The ultimate truth of reality: the nonbeingness of the beloved When tantra is enhanced by real love, then you can dissolve into the vastness Stabilizing the realization is the second stage, actualizing the realization and not going back to the “doer” is the third stage The dissolution of self doesn’t necessarily last: humility is an important step towards making the realization more constant Nonbeing is the essence of intimacy: being completely one with the inner beloved On the path of love, nonduality becomes intimacy; reality itself is pure intimacy For fans of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, the Wisdom Series, based on Hameed’s book The Inner Journey Home, will be continued in June 2026.Resources & ReferencesA. H. Almaas, The Inner Beloved: The Heart’s Journey to Divine UnityPrevious Deep Transformation Path of Love dialogues: Entering the Path of Heart, Emptying the Heart of All that Obscures the Inn
Ep. 232 | In this potent and profound conversation, Zen teachers, Integral Facilitators, and conflict mediators, Diane Musho Hamilton and her student and co-author Gabriel Wilson, eloquently reveal the practical benefits of a life founded on contemplative practice. What they bring home so effectively—both in this conversation and in their new book, Waking Up and Growing Up—is how much we have to gain from an interface of traditional Zen and contemporary knowledge. “Buddhist practice is the most genius way to work with human suffering,” Diane says, and grounded in awareness of the fundamental oneness is where we want to be when engaging in social or political activism, or when facing any kind of conflict. “It’s the evolution of consciousness and the attendant set of skills to support that,” she continues. We can awaken to an awareness of our true nature, and then take up the gauntlet of growing up—“straight up maturation, straight-up ego development.”In fact, what Gabe calls Diane’s “experiment” is nothing less than evolving the 2,500-year-old tradition of Zen, preserving and innovating, holding on to the wisdom, power, and grace of the tradition while bringing in the contributions of the West: psychology, shadow work, neuroscience, emotional development, and stage-appropriate interpersonal skills. Also, how to make sense of power dynamics, work with authority, and allow being pushed out of our comfort zone. A testament to Diane and Gabe’s own inner work, this groundbreaking conversation is inspiring and impactful, punctuated with deep, personal, experiential wisdom from both guests that speaks directly to how we can best wake up, grow up, and show up in this challenging world of ours. Recorded July 24, 2025.“There’s nothing like sitting with what is to prepare you to be with what is.”Topics & Time StampsIntroducing Zen teachers, authors, and Integral Facilitators, Diane Musho Hamilton & Gabriel Wilson What drew Gabe to Zen, and what lack did he feel Waking Up and Growing Up would fill? Evolving the Zen tradition: what do we need, particularly in western Buddhism, that we’re not finding? Using Ken Wilber’s framework of waking up and growing up What does “waking up” really mean? Practice IS enlightenment: the awakened mind is only found in the here and now There’s nothing like sitting with what is to prepare you to be with what will come The realization that there’s no big opening to be had What does “growing up” mean? Providing students with interpersonal skills to accommodate their evolving levels of development Writing for the younger generations: how to make sense of power dynamics, work with authority & allow being pushed out of your comfort zone The wisdom of learning from those who have gone before us Growing the capacity to deal with intensity in the moment The example of John Lewis: being inclusive of the ego but not limited by it How do we respond to what’s happening without imagining it shouldn’t be happening? Holding the vision that we are fundamentally one when we engage in social activism Be wary of using aggression in the name of love Within the container of conventional religious traditions, developmental tasks are different for each stage The teacher/student relationship cuts both ways Preserving and evolving the Zen tradition for today’s world Buddhist practice is the most genius way to work with human suffering Looking to the future: are we innovating too much? A lot of technology is racing us to the bottom of our brainstem; where we put our attention is important Resources & ReferencesDiane Musho Hamilton, co-founder of Two Arrows Zen CenterGabriel Wilson, founder of <a href="https://www.freedomandfairness.co/" rel="n
Ep. 231 (Part 2 of 2) | In Part 2 of Deep Transformation’s third dialogue in the Path of Love Series with A. H. Almaas, Hameed Ali relates what happens on the path of return, after we have experienced dissolving into the radiance of the absolute. In following the path of heart (as opposed to the path of mind), we discover that in addition to pure emptiness, the absolute has (in its beingness aspect) a quality of consciousness that is pure intimacy. “The beloved is intimate with all things in the universe: intimate with people, with the rocks, with the stars… because its nature pervades everything.” Upon returning to the world, we find the universe has become the radiance of the beloved and ordinary life becomes full of love. That said, we may experience a great fear of losing our awakened realization, Hameed adds, which can further stir up old woundings which still need to be faced.Back in the world, as the embodied beloved, do you feel compassion for other people’s suffering? co-host John Dupuy wonders. The extent of the compassion is almost unimaginable, Hameed answers. There is vast empathy for all the suffering in the world, and especially for the deep suffering underlying it all that is caused by people not knowing their inner truth. It is by giving the beloved the opportunity to appear and know itself as we live our lives that we love and serve the inner beloved, Hameed continues. He explains that awareness is the beloved witnessing its creation, and that the emptiness aspect of the beloved, emphasized in Buddhism and on the path of mind, brings a searing clarity to our experience. A beautiful conversation, in which co-host Roger Walsh remarks that the presence of the inner beloved seems to be increasingly reflected in these dialogues as they unfold. Perhaps you will feel it too. Recorded January 29, 2026. “Regardless of what we think and feel, at our essence we are love.”Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2The path of return: the fear of losing the beloved Old wounds come up bringing more fear; you have to welcome all the wounding Upon return, ordinary life becomes full of love—can this be translated into a scientific or mathematical theory? Service is giving the inner beloved the opportunity to appear & know itself The depth of compassion felt for the suffering of the world is almost unimaginable If you don’t work things out, you can’t live in this world as the deity The beloved is intimate with all things in the universe because its nature pervades everything The primal cavity: the deep wish to go into dark, black emptiness What is the relation between love and compassion? The heart is just there for the beloved—the throne of the beloved The more hatred and aggression, the more the disconnection Witnessing: awareness is the beloved witnessing its creation Realizing the emptiness: the radiance of the darkness is the essence of awareness The feeling tone of these dialogues increasingly reflects the presence of the inner beloved There is a lot more in the book The Inner Beloved, including conversations with Hameed’s students & exercises, that hasn’t been discussed At our essence we are love: moving towards heart is the inherent potential of humanity Resources & References – Part 2A. H. Almaas, The Inner Beloved: The Heart’s Journey to Divine UnityPrevious Deep Transformation Path of Love dialogues: Entering the Path of Heart, Emptying the Heart of All that Obscures the Inner Beloved & Dissolving into Bliss<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakrishna" rel="noopener noreferrer" t
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Deep Transformation offers dialogues with cutting-edge thinkers, artists, contemplatives, and activists who combine big-picture, integrative perspectives with profound, contemplative depths. With these remarkable people, we explore the great questions of our time, such as how best to live, and how best to heal, learn, create, and contribute in our era of unprecedented challenges and opportunities.
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