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by Pavilion
The #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Tune in to hear Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman discuss and debate the trends, news, and developments impacting the B2B tech world. Enjoy the hot takes, strong opinions, and dry humor.
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- 5 days ago1h 6m
Build The World Class Team That Anthropic Won't Steal | Craig Rosenberg, CPO @Scale Venture Partners
Craig Rosenberg, Chief Platform Officer at Scale Venture Partners and co-founder of Topo, joins AJ Bruno and Asad Zaman to take on the question every founder is wrestling with: can you still build a world-class sales team when OpenAI and Anthropic are handing individual contributors $10 million equity packages? Craig argues you do not have to compete head-on, then lays out the hiring profile to chase instead, the quota-to-comp discipline that keeps packages sane, and why founder brand has become the most reliable pipeline play left as CAC keeps climbing. Topics include enterprise AE compensation, where private equity is still winning the GTM talent war, the Topo playbook for events and data-as-moat, and a bull-versus-bear debate on whether Gong goes public in the next 36 months. Plus, a Quiz Pro Quo on the real customer counts behind Salesforce, HubSpot, and ZoomInfo. Key Takeaways: - Rather than try to outbid OpenAI and Anthropic for talent, build your own farm system and develop people into the role. As Craig Rosenberg, Chief Platform Officer at Scale Venture Partners, put it: "You have to change your hiring profile to a unique profile that's unique to your business, but then you gotta coach 'em up." - A resume from a hot AI lab is not a guarantee of success at your company. As Craig Rosenberg noted, "The person that is going to do well at Anthropic may not do well at Series B," so hire for the stage and the hunger rather than the logo. - On compensation, Craig anchors the package to the role's real value: "you pay for what your wedge costs… if you feel like you have to pay $10 million, then you have a huge problem and you gotta go back to the drawing board." If the number runs away from you, the model is broken. - With CAC climbing and most channels breaking down, founder brand has become the highest-leverage pipeline play. As Craig Rosenberg said, "The value of building a founder brand, when you look at the data, it's amazing," pointing to gains in both pipeline and deal size. Connect with the Hosts & Guests: Host: AJ Bruno, CEO at QuotaPath - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman, CEO at Sales Talent Agency - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ Guest: Craig Rosenberg, Chief Platform Officer at Scale Venture Partners - https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigrosenberg/ Topline is more than a YouTube Channel: Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://toplinemedia.substack.com/ Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 Introducing Craig Rosenberg 02:34 Can Anyone Out-Hire The AI Labs? 04:33 Why Craig Isn't Worried 06:52 Enterprise AE Comp Is Climbing 08:21 Founders Overpay For Star CROs 10:53 Why AI Reps Struggle At Series B 14:00 Hire The Slighted CRO 14:42 Quota-To-Comp And Attainment 18:45 Can AI Labs Sustain Growth? 22:20 Where PE Still Wins GTM Talent 27:17 Major Runs Reshape GTM 32:36 The Topo GTM Playbook 37:55 Quiz Pro Quo 47:45 Founder Brand And Rising CAC 58:42 Bulls and Bears
- 1 weeks agoroundtable1h 7m4-min read
AI "Efficiency" Is Killing Your Marketing | Kyle Lacy, CMO @ Docebo
Kyle Lacey argues that in an age of AI-driven efficiency, human-centric brand building—anchored in authenticity, storytelling, and a clear manifesto—is the only sustainable competitive advantage. He warns against folding marketing under sales leadership, which kills long-term brand and product marketing innovation, and emphasizes that the most effective marketing comes from deep belief in the product and mission, not mercenary tactics.
- 2 weeks ago1h 9m
WARNING: Why 'Non-Revenue' CS Roles Won't Survive | Sam Slevin, Global SVP CS @ AlphaSense
Sam Slevin, Global SVP of Customer Success at AlphaSense, joins Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman on the AI-era customer success playbook. Topics include why service is the differentiator over the next 2 to 3 years, the case for customer success owning a revenue number from day one, the gap between finance's productivity targets and real-life capacity. Plus, the origins of customer success, why consumption-based pricing can quickly become a trap, and a bull-versus-bear debate on whether HubSpot can get back to a $20 billion market cap. In short... big episode! Key Takeaways: - After 17 years building customer success teams, Sam Slevin doesn't entertain the "should CS own a number" debate. As Sam Slevin, Global SVP of Customer Success at AlphaSense, put it: "in my 17 years of, of customer success and leadership within customer success, that has never actually been a debate for, for me. I, I would never take a role that doesn't have revenue focused and like impact owning a number, calling your forecast from day one." His standing practice when he joins a new company: build a top-down and bottoms-up forecast on day one and validate it the same way sales does. - Slevin's central thesis is that AI raises the floor on automation while service becomes the upside lever for the next 2 to 3 years. As Slevin put it: "I don't think there could be a more exciting time to be in customer success where service feels like it could be the major differentiator over the next 2 to 3 years." The CS team that listens carefully, builds deep relationships, and meets customers where they are wins the renewal and the expansion. - The hardest tension in CS productivity is the gap between what finance models demand and what individual accounts actually support. As Slevin put it on his approach: "I definitely want to increase productivity in ARR per AM. What's interesting is I feel like there's a finance model and then there's a real life model… finance will say we need $15 million per AM." The leader's job, Slevin argues, is to find the 10% operational drag (AM-to-AE handoffs, billing friction, segmentation gaps) and remove it to close the gap. - On HubSpot's path back to $20 billion, AJ Bruno takes the bullish side based on customer behavior signals. As AJ Bruno, CEO at QuotaPath, put it: "And the fact that they've gone horizontal, um, now I know that there are like 70% of their customers are still looking for answers for HubSpot of what AI needs to look like, and they haven't let the opportunity yet pass them by, but it's getting shaky right now." Sam Jacobs took the bearish side, citing structural challenges and faster-moving AI-first competitors. Connect with the Hosts & Guests: Host: Sam Jacobs, CEO at Pavilion - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ Host: AJ Bruno, CEO at QuotaPath - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman, CEO at Sales Talent Agency - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ Guest: Sam Slevin, Global SVP Customer Success at AlphaSense - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-slevin-9b2ba21b/ Topline is more than a YouTube Channel: Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://toplinemedia.substack.com/ Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 Introducing Sam Slevin 03:13 Customer Success in the AI Era 04:28 Should CS Own a Number? 07:43 Gross Retention vs. Growth 11:02 The Number-Owner Premium 14:37 Service as the AI-Era Moat 22:19 Productivity Per Person 26:34 Vendor Spend and AI Voice Modes 35:12 Reimagining GTM Roles 38:51 Quiz Pro Quo 45:38 Seat to Usage-Based Pricing 50:12 Pricing AI Like a Meter 55:43 CSM vs Salesperson Comp Gap 58:43 Bulls and Bears
- 3 weeks ago57 min
AI Cyber Exec: Vibecoding Is A Security Time Bomb | Ryan Burke, VP Worldwide Sales @ Crogl
Ryan Burke, VP of Worldwide Sales at Crogl, joins Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman on the new economics of enterprise cyber risk. Topics include Anthropic's Mythos model, AI for the security operations center, why vibe-coded apps are far more likely to have security issues, why Claude Design tanked Figma's stock, and what the Elon Musk versus OpenAI lawsuit signals for AI governance. Key takeaways: AI has crashed the cost of running sophisticated attacks, putting nation-state-grade tooling in the hands of low-skill operators. As Ryan Burke, VP of Worldwide Sales at Crogl, put it on Anthropic's Mythos model: "Mythos has lowered the cost to like the dollar menu equivalent of...running an attack...so more people can do it." Enterprises are staring down a multi-year patching backlog that runs from now until the end of time. Non-technical teams in finance, ops, and HR are shipping internal tools using Replit and Claude, and almost none of them are securing what they build. Ryan Burke flagged the research: "vibe-coded software is almost 3 times as likely to have security issues." When the employee who built the agent quits, the agent stays behind with no owner, no documentation, and quiet access to systems it never should have had in the first place. For founders eyeing an exit, security has joined revenue, IP, and hitting your numbers as a non-negotiable diligence pillar. As Ryan Burke explained: "lack of security can kill an acquisition...a fourth pillar now is you're secure." Acquirers like JPMorgan Chase will not buy a fintech startup that turns into a vector for attackers to walk straight into their environment. The market case for NRR-fortress legacy SaaS may be weaker than the last decade made it look. As Asad Zaman, CEO of Sales Talent Agency, argued: "there was a generation of software companies that had signs that they had really good customer relationships...but their customers felt more like prisoners." If AI makes switching cheap and a new generation of software actually delights users, the moats around system-of-record incumbents start to compress fast. Connect with the hosts and guest: Host: Sam Jacobs, CEO at Pavilion - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ Host: AJ Bruno, CEO at QuotaPath - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman, CEO at Sales Talent Agency - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ Guest: Ryan Burke, VP Worldwide Sales at Crogl - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-burke-bos/ Topline is more than a YouTube Channel: Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://toplinemedia.substack.com/ Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 Introducing Ryan Burke 03:14 Anthropic Mythos and Cyber Risk 04:20 How Attackers Use AI at Scale 07:00 Dollar Menu Attacks Explained 10:41 AI for the Security Ops Center 14:53 Why Claude Tanks Figma's Stock 18:30 Sam's Advice on Falling Stocks 20:50 Are Legacy SaaS Companies Back? 24:04 The Vibe-Coding Risk Surface 27:56 Quiz Pro: Cybersecurity Edition 33:46 Replit Apps Inside Enterprises 40:18 Security as the M&A Fourth Pillar 44:17 Personal Data and Digital Legacy 47:24 Bulls vs Bears: Elon vs OpenAI 52:03 Will ServiceNow Hit $32B?
- May 3, 20261h 2m
Top Investor: AI Killed Most Moats. These 4 Still Work | Liz Christo, Partner @ Stage 2 Capital
Stage 2 Capital General Partner Liz Christo joins the show to discuss the disconnect between venture expectations and reality in the software market. The conversation covers the hidden costs of the new build versus buy debate, the structural changes happening within modern sales organizations, and whether traditional B2B SaaS go-to-market strategies and moats still matter when AI coding tools make software replication cheaper than ever. Key Takeaways: -The shift toward building internal AI tools instead of buying SaaS products overlooks long-term technical debt, as Liz Christo points out that "there's like a huge amount of cost buried behind the scenes that we're not really talking about today because it's still like sexy and fun." -Founders are artificially inflating their Total Addressable Market to meet new venture capital baseline expectations, with Liz Christo noting that "pitch decks read like really ridiculous right now where everybody wants to tell the story of like a $10 billion outcome because that's the new milestone that got set." -Revenue Operations is becoming the most direct path to the Chief Revenue Officer seat in AI-first organizations, which Sam Jacobs explains is "because as we use fewer humans and more agents, the sort of the half technical, the semi-technical capabilities of most RevOps people will translate into orchestrating armies of agents." -Delegating analysis and writing to AI risks destroying strategic judgment across go-to-market teams, a trend Liz Christo summarizes by stating, "I think we are producing an incredible amount of content that's not getting consumed... I just think we're like losing the ability to think and we're not teaching junior employees how to do it." Connect with the Hosts & Guests: Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ Guest: Liz Christo - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizchristo/ Topline is more than a YouTube Channel: Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://toplinemedia.substack.com/ Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 Intro and Cold Open 02:41 The New Build vs Buy Debate 06:10 Engineers in Every Department 10:48 Pitch Decks and 10B Dollar TAMs 17:53 Venture Capital Funding Quiz 23:43 AI Memos and Critical Thinking 42:41 Software Moats and Switching Costs 47:46 Bulls vs Bears Segment 48:23 RevOps as a Path to CRO 51:25 The Future of SDR Managers 55:14 Is Clay Actually Undervalued 59:12 Odds of Hitting 50M ARR
- Apr 26, 20261h 3m
VC Whisperer: There Will Be No Exits For... | Peter Walker, Head of Insights @ Carta
Peter Walker brings Carta's proprietary private market data from 60,000 startups and 85% of US unicorns to expose the brutal realities of today's tech landscape. While Q1 saw record capital raised, the money is highly concentrated among foundation models. We review the harsh truth behind the 530,000 open tech jobs in the US and the widening talent divide separating top 10% performers from the rest of the market. The conversation covers why venture capital is squeezing operators, how private equity is no longer a guaranteed exit strategy, and the urgent need to optimize your GTM strategy for AI-native workflows. We also debate the death of long-term product roadmaps, the impact of AI on enterprise pipeline generation, and evaluate whether middle management will survive the next 24 months. Key Takeaways The traditional safety net for slow-growth SaaS companies has disappeared, with Peter Walker noting that "A lot of companies held out this PE route as like, this is my escape hatch if I don't grow that fast. And now they're finding it's like, actually, the PEs don't care about you either." Securing venture capital has never been harder for founders outside of the AI bubble, as Peter Walker states "it's definitely not the easiest time to raise money unless you are already in the legible cohort. And if you're in the legible cohort, you know who you are." Rapid execution is replacing traditional product planning, with Peter Walker emphasizing that "the companies that are moving fast… don't know what they're doing in three weeks... we have no idea what's going to happen in October." Artificial intelligence is fundamentally threatening traditional communication hierarchies, and Sam Jacobs is bearish on the future of people managers because "if the purpose of management is to facilitate decision making at certain executive levels, that is something that AI can do." Connect with the Hosts & Guests Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ Guest: Peter Walker - https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterjameswalker/ Topline is more than a YouTube Channel! Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://toplinemedia.substack.com/ Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 The AI Funding Divide 02:36 Is It Harder to Raise Capital 04:37 VCs Only Care About Growth 06:44 The Death of the PE Exit 10:48 Transitioning to AI Native 14:50 Why Product Roadmaps Are (Kinda) Dead 19:19 Stop Defaulting to VC 29:11 Historic Tech Funding Rounds 31:59 Over 530K Open Tech Jobs 36:55 Hiring Market Concentration 46:29 The Growing Tech Talent Divide 49:11 VC Fund Performance Realities 54:28 Future of Foundation Models 58:29 The End of Middle Management
- Apr 19, 202655 min
The #1 GTM Engineer In The World | Jordan Crawford, Founder @ Blueprint GTM
In this episode, Jordan Crawford outlines how revenue leaders can build an autonomous pipeline generation engine and transition away from static playbooks. The discussion covers practical methods for extracting competitor usage data, identifying segments of users who are far more likely to buy, and generally how top GTM teams are using GTM Engineering to dramatically improve their results. The hosts also evaluate how AI tools alter revenue operations, shift the traditional B2B SaaS go-to-market strategy, and force a total redesign of traditional AE compensation models. Key Takeaways: Top-down executive mandates fail because leadership lacks hands-on experience with the required technical systems. Jordan Crawford notes the absurdity of this disconnect, stating, "You read these letters from all these CEOs and they're like, 'We need to be an AI first organization and I can't tell you what that means or how to implement it, but goddamn, you need to be able to do it.'" The core function of revenue operations must shift from administrative reporting tasks to running active market tests. Sam Jacobs explains this organizational friction, observing many Rev Ops employees think their job is still to deliver reports to the C-Suite and ensure data accuracy, when today's reality is that "actually your job now is to generate demand and like I need 50 campaigns tested by tomorrow." Identifying high-value target accounts requires prioritizing product telemetry and user actions over static CRM fields. Jordan highlights the power of this approach, explaining that "AI can basically analyze customers' words, actions, and what's in the CRM and say... these accounts are worth 10 times more than these accounts." Connect with the Hosts & Guests: Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ Guest: Jordan Crawford - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordancrawford/ Topline is more than a YouTube Channel: Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast J Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 Podcast Episode Introduction 02:52 Reversing GTM Strategy 06:44 RevOps and AI Thought Partners 13:58 Executing Fast Sales Campaigns 18:25 AI For Comp Plan Benchmarks 21:04 Defining Pain Qualified Segments 26:42 Shifting RevOps Priorities 38:41 Unbundling B2B SaaS Jobs 39:21 The Topline Trivia Game 45:11 Top Of Funnel AI Tactics 46:43 Middle Of Funnel Telemetry 47:56 Bottom Of Funnel Contract Review 49:10 Bull/Bear Predictions
- Apr 12, 20261h 5m
How Top VCs Pick Winners In 2026 | Cassie Young, General Partner @ Primary Venture Partners
Cassie Young, Partner at Primary Venture Partners, joins the show to break down their contrarian $625 million seed fund and the reality of the coming gross retention apocalypse for tech companies. The conversation outlines why classical venture logic is breaking and how AI-native CRMs are plotting to steal enterprise market share from legacy giants like Salesforce. The group also details why the $6 trillion white-collar labor pool is the real target for emerging AI workflows rather than traditional software budgets. Expect a direct discussion on the myth of the zero CAC CEO, the evolving definition of the jaw-dropping customer experience, and the specific signals Primary looks for when writing checks to early-stage go-to-market founders building the next wave of B2B SaaS products. Key Takeaways -Primary Ventures just raised a massive $625 million seed fund by challenging traditional venture capital models, as Cassie explains, "The conventional wisdom at seed is to stay small. We fundamentally disagree with that." But don't worry: Cassie explains why they believe their approach is the right one. -Cassie warns that a retention reckoning is inevitable for AI startups noting, "I still very much live in fear of this... it might not be next month, it might not be next year, but it's ultimately going to come." Meanwhile, the hosts wonder: is it truly inevitable? Or just highly likely? -Cassie points out that a "Zero CAC CEO who's not supplemented by amazing technologists, it's just not enough." And that's just one of the many classic competitive moats which Cassie flags as reducing in value. -Asad highlights how rapid AI advancements are forcing companies to continuously rethink their competitive moats and sales motions, stating, "There are no product advantages that are long-lasting anymore." Connect with the Hosts & Guests Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ Guest: Cassie Young - https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassyoung/ Topline is more than a YouTube Channel: Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 Cassie Young Joins Topline 04:37 Raising a $625M Seed Fund 08:08 How Primary Wins Seed Deals 12:56 The 6 Trillion AI Opportunity 19:04 Can AI CRMs Beat Salesforce 29:14 Gross Retention Apocalypse 40:12 Myth of the Zero CAC CEO 46:58 Eradicating Switching Costs 53:15 Backing Go-to-Market Founders
About Topline
The #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Tune in to hear Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman discuss and debate the trends, news, and developments impacting the B2B tech world. Enjoy the hot takes, strong opinions, and dry humor.
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