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Breaking Math Podcast: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Autumn Phaneuf & Noah Giansiracusa
Breaking Math is a deep-dive science, technology, engineering, AI, and mathematics podcast that explores the world through the lens of logic, patterns, and critical thinking. Hosted by Autumn Phaneuf, an expert in industrial engineering, operations research, and applied mathematics, and Noah Giansiracusa, a mathematician and leading voice in algorithmic literacy and technology ethics, the show is dedicated to uncovering the mathematical structures behind science, technology, and the systems shaping our future. What began as a conversation about math as a pure and elegant discipline has evolved into a platform for bold, interdisciplinary dialogue. Each episode of Breaking Math takes listeners on an intellectual journey—into the strange beauty of chaos theory, the ethical dilemmas of AI and algorithms, the hidden math of biology and evolution, or the physics governing black holes and the cosmos. Along the way, Autumn and Noah explore the connections between abstract mathematical ideas and real-world phenomena, inviting curiosity and deeper understanding.
Latest Episodes
The most recent episodes — sign up to get AI-powered summaries of each one.
- 4 days ago59 min
Robot Proof: Why Better AI Starts With Better People with Vivienne Ming
Neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and author Dr. Vivienne Ming joins Autumn and Noah to make the case that if we want better AI, we need to build better people first. We get into why AI tutors that hand students answers make learning worse, not better; what her research on "hybrid intelligence" reveals about the human traits — not the AI model — that predict elite human-AI collaboration; a wild experiment running Dungeons & Dragons with Claude and Gemini as dungeon masters to expose the gap between knowing and understanding; her case for "fiduciary AI," legal duty-of-care standards for tutors, hiring tools, and diagnostic models; and the real story of a hiring algorithm that learned to discriminate against women after every explicit gender marker was stripped out.Chapters02:20 Why build this book now? The importance of human qualities04:16 AI in education and the concept of robot-proofing06:37 The median student and AI personalization09:31 The limitations of AI understanding and theory of mind11:30 Building better people with AI and human interaction14:23 Hybrid intelligence and the role of human-AI collaboration23:56 Case study: AI in Dungeons & Dragons30:42 AI's strengths and limitations in understanding and cognition37:34 The science of purpose and its impact on life and society44:44 The collective intelligence of humans versus AI46:54 Key takeaway: Build better people for better Follow Vivienne Ming on X (https://x.com/neuraltheory) Get Vivienne's book, Robot Proof: (https://amzn.to/3Tz21aP) Follow Breaking Math onSubstack (https://breakingmath.substack.com/)X (https://x.com/breakingmathpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/breakingmathmedia/)Website (https://www.breakingmath.io/)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@BreakingMathPod)Follow Noah onInstagram (https://www.instagram.com/profnoahgian/)X (https://x.com/ProfNoahGian)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/profnoahgian.bsky.social)Follow Autumn onX (https://x.com/1autumn_leaf)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/1autumnleaf.bsky.social)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/1autumnleaf/)Substack (https://substack.com/@1autumnleaf)email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
- 2 weeks ago44 min
Why Nothing Works: Robber Barons, Algorithms & Governing AI
In this episode, Historian and author Marc Dunkelman to explain why the 19th-century fight over railroad power is the exact fight we're about to have over algorithms and AI. Drawing on his acclaimed book Why Nothing Works: Who Killed Progress — and How to Bring It Back (a Best Book of the Year in the Financial Times and The Economist), Marc unpacks the two competing tools America has always used against concentrated power — antitrust vs. regulation — and why our government's "endemic diffusion of authority" now means nobody can decide anything, from congestion pricing to clean-energy transmission lines to AI safety.CHAPTERS04:52 — When private projects come back to the public: Warp Speed, DARPA, CHIPS08:55 — Two ways to fight concentrated power: break them up vs. regulate10:52 — Railroads, island communities & the birth of regulation12:29 — The railroad = algorithm parallel20:33 — Why nothing gets built: the diffusion of authority27:30 — "A voice without a veto" and the AI moment32:53 — Where should government draw the line on new tech?37:20 — Dunkelman the pragmatist: there is no simple answer38:21 — Where math and AI can genuinely help public policy40:46 — The lesson we keep overlookingFollow Marc on X [https://x.com/MarcDunkelman]Get Marc's book, Why Nothing Works: https://amzn.to/4pbFvAB]Substack (https://breakingmath.substack.com/)X (https://x.com/breakingmathpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/breakingmathmedia/)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/breakingmath.bsky.social)Website (https://www.breakingmath.io/)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@BreakingMathPod)Follow Noah onInstagram (https://www.instagram.com/profnoahgian/)X (https://x.com/ProfNoahGian)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/profnoahgian.bsky.social)Follow Autumn onX (https://x.com/1autumn_leaf)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/1autumnleaf.bsky.social)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/1autumnleaf/)Substack (https://substack.com/@1autumnleaf)email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
- 3 weeks ago52 min
Can Math Save Journalism?: Julia Angwin on Proof, Power, and Amazon's Algorithm
In this conversation we chat with Julia Angwin — Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, founder of Proof News, and former Wall Street Journal and ProPublica reporter — to make the case that journalism should function more like mathematical proof than anecdote.We cover how Angwin's team at The Markup used a decision-tree model to prove Amazon was favoring its own products in search results by an 8-to-1 margin — a finding the House Antitrust Committee later cited when referring Amazon to the DOJ for possible perjury. We dig into her "ingredients label" approach to reporting at Proof News (hypothesis, sample size, techniques, limitations), the difference between mathematical proof and the scientific method, and why she thinks control over algorithmic media is now the central battleground for authoritarian power. She also unpacks her new book on resisting authoritarianism, built from interviews with dissidents worldwide, including the "Swiss cheese" model of personal security and why perfectionism is dangerous in a crisis. Chapters09:50 Proof News: A New Era in Journalism19:56 Data-Driven Investigations: A Case Study30:02 The Future of Journalism and AI32:53 The Evolution of Search Rankings35:06 The Role of Algorithms in Information Access36:41 Fighting Authoritarianism Through Journalism44:52 Community Resistance Against Authoritarianism48:33 The Dangers of Perfectionism in Resistance51:26 Declaring a Position in Journalism56:25 The Importance of Math in Modern Society Julia Angwin's book, “On Courage” (https://amzn.to/448G8kY)Follow Julia Angwin onX (https://x.com/JuliaAngwin/)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/juliaangwin.com) Proof News (https://www.proofnews.org/)Follow Breaking Math onSubstack (https://breakingmath.substack.com/)X (https://x.com/breakingmathpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/breakingmathmedia/)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/breakingmath.bsky.social)Website (https://www.breakingmath.io/)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@BreakingMathPod)Follow Noah onInstagram (https://www.instagram.com/profnoahgian/)X (https://x.com/ProfNoahGian)Follow Autumn onX (https://x.com/1autumn_leaf)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/1autumnleaf/)email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
- Jun 24, 202645 min
The Proof in the Code: How Lean Is Quietly Rewriting Trust in Math (w/ Kevin Hartnett)
In this episode, Autumn and Noah talk with Kevin Hartnett about why mathematicians are willing to spend years reducing an idea to a level of detail a machine can check, whether formal verification can catch an AI that's technically correct but fundamentally misaligned, the cold-start problem that kept earlier theorem-provers niche, and what it means for the future of mathematical trust once AI can generate proofs faster than any human community can read them.Timeline:00:00 Introduction to Lean and Its Significance03:18 The Journey of Writing the Book05:13 Human Element in Mathematical Formalization06:57 Understanding Formal Proofs in Mathematics11:21 The Origins of Lean and Its Purpose13:03 Misalignment in Software Specifications14:39 Building Mathematical Libraries in Lean17:23 Ensuring Accuracy in Mathematical Foundations22:00 Overcoming the Cold Start Problem in Lean Adoption24:36 The Future of Mathematical Proofs30:26 AI's Role in Mathematics38:29 Expanding Beyond Mathematics41:40 The Long-Term Impact of LeanThe Proof in the Code is out now from Quanta Books. (https://amzn.to/3SuNlJm)Follow Kevin Hartnett onX (https://x.com/KSHartnett) Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/kevinhartnett.bsky.social)Follow Breaking Math onSubstack (https://breakingmath.substack.com/)X (https://x.com/breakingmathpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/breakingmathmedia/)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/breakingmath.bsky.social)Website (https://www.breakingmath.io/)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@BreakingMathPod)Follow Noah onInstagram (https://www.instagram.com/profnoahgian/)X (https://x.com/ProfNoahGian)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/profnoahgian.bsky.social)Follow Autumn onX (https://x.com/1autumn_leaf)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/1autumnleaf.bsky.social)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/1autumnleaf/)Substack (https://substack.com/@1autumnleaf)email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
- Jun 10, 202640 min
How Data Science Exposes Injustice: Chad Topaz on Unlocking Justice
What happens when the evidence of injustice is buried in messy, redacted, or inaccessible data? Mathematician and data scientist Chad Topaz joins Breaking Math to discuss his book Unlocking Justice. Together, we explore policing, sentencing, public records, Rikers Island, algorithmic risk, and the limits of quantifying human lives. This is a conversation about math, power, transparency, and the small acts of hope that can change systems. Chapters00:00 Introduction and Context of the Conversation01:11 Chad's Journey from Mathematics to Social Justice03:50 The Personal Nature of Chad's Book04:40 Challenges in Data Collection and Access08:03 The Impact of Data on Policing and Surveillance09:51 Humorous Yet Tragic Data Collection Experiences12:55 The Importance of Data Preparation and Cleaning14:40 Navigating Imperfect Data and Its Consequences17:48 The Balance Between Quantification and Human Stories22:25 Incarceration and Public Health: The Rikers Island Case Study31:36 Mathematics and Social Justice: Secrets of the Elite39:03 Hope and Action: A Personal Journey in Data for JusticeFollow Chad Topaz onBluesky(https://bsky.app/profile/chadtopaz.bsky.social) Book (https://amzn.to/3S21pKb)Follow Breaking Math onSubstack (https://breakingmath.substack.com/)X (https://x.com/breakingmathpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/breakingmathmedia/)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/breakingmath.bsky.social)Website (https://www.breakingmath.io/)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@BreakingMathPod)Follow Noah onInstagram (https://www.instagram.com/profnoahgian/)X (https://x.com/ProfNoahGian)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/profnoahgian.bsky.social)Follow Autumn onX (https://x.com/1autumn_leaf)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/1autumnleaf.bsky.social)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/1autumnleaf/)Substack (https://substack.com/@1autumnleaf)email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
- Jun 2, 202644 min
Rise of the Robots: Is AI Coming for Your Job?
This conversation explores the profound impact of AI and automation on the future of work, economy, and society. Featuring Martin Ford, author of 'Rise of the Robots,' the discussion covers technological progress, economic implications, policy ideas like universal basic income, and the evolving nature of jobs in an AI-driven world.Key TopicsImpact of AI on employment and economyPotential of universal basic income as a solutionDifferences between past technological revolutions and AIThe evolution from physical robots to AI software agentsJobs most vulnerable to automation and AIChapters04:14 The Impact of Technological Revolutions on Employment10:40 The Shift from Physical to Intellectual Automation12:16 The Debate: Replacement vs. Augmentation of Jobs18:01 Economic Implications of Job Displacement21:00 Exploring Solutions: Universal Basic Income and Beyond24:08 The Awakening of Economists25:12 Historical Perspectives on Automation28:27 Navigating the Future Job Market32:57 The Role of Skilled Trades in an AI World38:13 The Alien Thought Experiment42:17 The Future of AI and Its Implications44:14 The Rise of Automation and Its Impact45:14 AI as a Digital Workforce45:38 The Shifting Landscape of Work46:08 Questioning the Future of Automation and AIFollow Martin Ford onX (https://x.com/MFordFuture) Book (https://amzn.to/4vluX3N)Follow Breaking Math onSubstack (https://breakingmath.substack.com/)X (https://x.com/breakingmathpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/breakingmathmedia/)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/breakingmath.bsky.social)Website (https://www.breakingmath.io/)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@BreakingMathPod)Follow Noah onInstagram (https://www.instagram.com/profnoahgian/)X (https://x.com/ProfNoahGian)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/profnoahgian.bsky.social)Follow Autumn onX (https://x.com/1autumn_leaf)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/1autumnleaf.bsky.social)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/1autumnleaf/)Substack (https://substack.com/@1autumnleaf)email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
- May 29, 202647 min
The Echoing Universe: How Radio Waves, AI, and Math Could Help Us Find Aliens with Emma Chapman
Dr. Emma Chapman explains radio astronomy using the fruit bowl metaphor, explores the emotional and scientific aspects of space exploration, and discusses future technologies like the Square Kilometre Array and lunar radio telescopes. The conversation highlights the poetic beauty of the universe, the importance of connection, and the role of math and AI in understanding the cosmos with her book the Echoing Universe.Chapters03:17 Understanding Radio Astronomy08:12 The Intimacy of the Solar System09:10 Tidal Locking and the Moon13:36 The Emotional Lives of Astronauts' Families17:53 The Shared Experience of Space Exploration21:58 The Emotional Resonance of Celestial Events26:41 Facing the Universe: Overcoming Fear through Cosmology28:16 Cultural Perspectives: How Civilizations Understand the Cosmos30:52 Astronomy's Historical Impact: Control and Awe in Civilizations31:05 The Unlikely Scientist: James Stanley Hay's Discovery40:31 AI in Astronomy: Harnessing Data for Discovery45:14 The Next Frontier: Radio Telescopes on the Moon47:38 A New Perspective: The Space Between StarsFollow Dr. Emma Chapman Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/dreochapman.bsky.social)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/dremmachapman/)Book (https://amzn.to/4u0GCnC) Follow Breaking Math onSubstack (https://breakingmath.substack.com/)X (https://x.com/breakingmathpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/breakingmathmedia/)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/breakingmath.bsky.social)Website (https://www.breakingmath.io/)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@BreakingMathPod)Follow Noah onInstagram (https://www.instagram.com/profnoahgian/)X (https://x.com/ProfNoahGian)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/profnoahgian.bsky.social)Follow Autumn onX (https://x.com/1autumn_leaf)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/1autumnleaf.bsky.social)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/1autumnleaf/)Substack (https://substack.com/@1autumnleaf)email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
- May 23, 202629 min
AI Solves 80-Year-Old Math Conjecture: What It Means for the Future of Mathematics
This episode explores how AI, specifically OpenAI's recent breakthrough in solving an 80-year-old math conjecture, is transforming the field of mathematics. Featuring insights from Professor Daniel Litt, the discussion covers the implications of AI in mathematical research, the value of human verification, and the future of mathematical practice.Key topicsAI solving long-standing mathematical problemsThe role of human verification in AI-generated proofsImplications of AI breakthroughs in discrete geometryThe future of mathematical research with AINumber theory and algebraic constructions in AI discoveriesChapters00:00 Introduction to the Conjecture and Its Significance01:15 Understanding the Erdős Problem04:34 The Role of AI in Solving Mathematical Problems09:17 The Implications of AI in Mathematics10:32 AI vs Human Mathematicians: A Comparative Analysis17:20 Standards for AI-Generated Proofs21:10 Corporate Interests in Mathematical Research24:42 The Future of Mathematics and AI27:50 Final Thoughts on AI and Mathematics31:37 Revolutionizing Mathematics: AI's Breakthrough in Discrete Geometry37:37 Exploring the Implications: AI and the Future of Mathematics38:03 The Role of AI in Mathematics39:23 Human Value in the Age of AIFollow Daniel Litt onX (https://x.com/maiasz) Website (https://daniellitt.com)Follow Breaking Math onSubstack (https://breakingmath.substack.com/)X (https://x.com/breakingmathpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/breakingmathmedia/)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/breakingmath.bsky.social)Website (https://www.breakingmath.io/)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@BreakingMathPod)Follow Noah onInstagram (https://www.instagram.com/profnoahgian/)X (https://x.com/ProfNoahGian)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/profnoahgian.bsky.social)Follow Autumn onX (https://x.com/1autumn_leaf)Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/1autumnleaf.bsky.social)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/1autumnleaf/)Substack (https://substack.com/@1autumnleaf)email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
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About Breaking Math Podcast
Breaking Math is a deep-dive science, technology, engineering, AI, and mathematics podcast that explores the world through the lens of logic, patterns, and critical thinking. Hosted by Autumn Phaneuf, an expert in industrial engineering, operations research, and applied mathematics, and Noah Giansiracusa, a mathematician and leading voice in algorithmic literacy and technology ethics, the show is dedicated to uncovering the mathematical structures behind science, technology, and the systems shaping our future. What began as a conversation about math as a pure and elegant discipline has evolved into a platform for bold, interdisciplinary dialogue. Each episode of Breaking Math takes listeners on an intellectual journey—into the strange beauty of chaos theory, the ethical dilemmas of AI and algorithms, the hidden math of biology and evolution, or the physics governing black holes and the cosmos. Along the way, Autumn and Noah explore the connections between abstract mathematical ideas and real-world phenomena, inviting curiosity and deeper understanding.
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