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Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy: Daily Summaries Delivered
by David Burns, MD
This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!
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- 4 days ago46 min
522: What If the Real Antidepressant is You?
What If the Real Antidepressant Is You? The placebo effect is powerful—and why that truth matters more than you think. Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David Burns What if one of the most widely accepted ideas in mental health isn't true? In this fascinating episode, Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius discuss David's recent Psychology Today article, "What If the Real Antidepressant Is You? The Placebo Effect Is Powerful—and Why That Truth Matters More Than You Think." Together they explore decades of research on antidepressants, the surprising power of the placebo effect, and why giving yourself credit for your own recovery may be one of the most important—and hopeful—ideas in psychology. Whether you're taking antidepressants, considering them, or simply curious about the science of depression and recovery, this conversation will challenge assumptions, answer difficult questions with compassion, and leave you with a new perspective on where healing really comes from. Episode Summary Can a sugar pill relieve depression? The answer, surprisingly, is yes. But what if that isn't the most interesting question? In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius discuss David's recent Psychology Today article, "What If the Real Antidepressant Is You? The Placebo Effect Is Powerful—and Why That Truth Matters More Than You Think." Together they examine decades of research, clinical experience, and one of the biggest controversies in psychiatry: Do antidepressant medications work because of their chemistry—or because of the hope and expectation they inspire? David explains why his own experience treating thousands of patients led him to question the effectiveness of antidepressant medications long before large-scale analyses reached similar conclusions. He shares the story of discovering research comparing antidepressants with placebos, and why those findings changed the way he thought about depression treatment forever. The conversation then takes an unexpected turn as David tells a memorable story about a fictional "miracle drug" named Placebo. Through this thought experiment, he explains why the placebo effect is often misunderstood—and why recovering on a placebo doesn't mean someone is "faking it." Instead, David argues that people may be activating their own remarkable capacity for healing through hope, expectation, and changes in the way they think. Kevin raises thoughtful questions that many listeners may be asking: If antidepressants aren't doing the healing, why do so many people feel convinced they helped? Why do people become angry when the placebo effect is discussed? If the placebo effect is real, does that mean cognitive therapy is "just a placebo" too? How can we distinguish between hope, expectancy, and treatments that produce unique therapeutic benefits? David also discusses new research from the Feeling Great app suggesting that while expectancy contributes to improvement, TEAM-CBT techniques appear to have measurable therapeutic effects above and beyond placebo alone. The discussion also explores: Why David believes patients deserve the credit for their own recovery. How understanding how you recovered can help protect you from future
- 1 weeks ago43 min
521: Ask David-Friendship, Rejection, and Anxiety About Sleep
Ask David: Friendship, Rejection, and Anxiety About Sleep Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David BurnsGuest: Dr. Matt May In this Ask David episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, David Burns, Dr. Matt May, and Kevin Cornelius tackle two listener questions: one about the painful experience of feeling that your efforts at friendship aren't being reciprocated, and another about anxiety-induced insomnia. The conversation explores a common theme underlying both problems: our suffering often comes not only from what happens, but from the thoughts and assumptions we make about what happens. When Friendship Doesn't Feel Reciprocal Brittany writes about a recurring pattern in her relationships. She is usually the one who reaches out, initiates conversations, and tries to build friendships, but she doesn't feel that others make the same effort. She wonders: "What am I doing wrong?" Kevin suggests an important alternative: perhaps she isn't doing anything wrong at all. There may be many explanations for another person's lack of reciprocity. They may be busy, uncomfortable making new friends, or simply not interested in the same kind of relationship. Most importantly, we aren't the right friend for everybody—and everybody isn't the right friend for us. David introduces the TEAM-CBT technique of Reattribution, encouraging Brittany to consider explanations other than the automatic conclusion that something is wrong with her. The group then explores Changing the Focus, one of the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. Rather than silently wondering what another person is thinking, Brittany could directly—and respectfully—acknowledge the tension and ask the other person how they experience the relationship. But saying something this vulnerable can feel risky. What if the other person really does reject us? David, Matt, and Kevin explore this fear through a Feared Fantasy role-play, imagining some of the harshest things another person might say. The goal isn't to create a perfect response; it is to discover that even rejection can be faced, accepted, and explored with curiosity. The role-play produces one of the episode's central insights: accepting another person's criticism or rejection can sometimes be much more powerful than trying to defend ourselves against it. When Trying to Sleep Becomes the Problem The second listener, writing from China, describes three months of anxiety and insomnia. They desperately want to get eight hours of sleep, but the fear of not sleeping creates tension that makes falling asleep even harder. Then, when they realize they haven't slept well, the panic starts all over again. David immediately points to the value of a Daily Mood Log. Rather than guessing what is causing the anxiety, he recommends identifying the specific negative thoughts, emotions, and belief ratings connected to the insomnia. Matt suggests using the What-If Technique to uncover the fear underneath the anxiety: What are you afraid will happen if you don't get enough sleep? Perhaps the fear is that you won't be able to function, that something terrible will happen, or that you will lose control. Once the underlying fear is identified, it can become something that can actually be examined and challenged. Kevin also challenges the assumption that everyone needs exactly eight hours of sleep to be healthy. The discussion emphasizes that anxiety about the need to sleep can itself make sleep more difficult. David summarizes the ide
- 2 weeks ago34 min
520: Ask David--Grief, Love and Letting Go
Ask David: Grief, Love and Letting Go Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David BurnsGuest: Dr. Matt May In this Ask David episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, David Burns, Kevin Cornelius, and Matt May explore three emotionally difficult situations: watching a child struggle and desperately wanting to help, grieving the loss of someone you love, and trying to pursue a romantic relationship with someone who has clearly said no. The common thread? Our suffering often increases when we try to control something—or someone—that we cannot control. When Your Child Is Struggling The episode begins with a parent asking how to help a daughter who is having a difficult time. David offers a counterintuitive suggestion: sometimes the best way to help is to stop trying to help. Rather than pushing advice, solutions, or therapy, parents can learn to listen with genuine empathy. David recommends learning the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, which can help parents create an environment where their children feel understood and are more willing to talk. David also emphasizes an important principle from his own clinical practice: he doesn't try to help people against their will. Unless a child is very young, the person receiving therapy needs to want the help and ask for it. Matt adds another important dimension: parents and therapists may experience guilt, frustration, anger, or self-blame when they can't make someone else better. Those feelings don't mean you're a bad parent or therapist. They may simply reflect how deeply you care. What Is Healthy Grief? The second question comes from someone grieving the death of a spouse and wondering whether intense misery and despair are signs of unhealthy grief—and how long healthy grief is supposed to last. The discussion offers an important distinction: Healthy grief can be extremely painful. Sadness itself isn't necessarily something that needs to be "fixed." If the painful thoughts are accurate—"I'll never see my spouse again" or "I miss the person I loved"—then the appropriate response may be empathy rather than cognitive restructuring. But grief can become complicated by distorted thoughts, such as: "It's my fault that she died." "I should have done more." "I should have known." "I should have prevented this." "I'll never be happy again." These thoughts can add guilt, shame, anger, and hopelessness to the natural pain of loss. David also challenges the idea that there is a prescribed timetable for grief. There is no universal schedule that says when someone "should" be finished grieving. Trying to force yourself to recover according to an arbitrary timeline may simply create another layer of suffering. Instead, David encourages listeners to lean into grief rather than judge it. Deep grief can be understood as an expression of deep love. When Romantic Pursuit Becomes a Trap The final question comes from Ahmed, who became interested in a divorced woman, expressed
- 3 weeks ago45 min
519: What Therapists Get Wrong—and How to Fix It
Episode 519: What Therapists Get Wrong—and How to Fix It Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David BurnsGuest: Jeremy Karmel What happens when therapy becomes something you simply keep doing rather than something that actually helps you get better? In this lively and provocative episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, joins Dr. David Burns and Jeremy Karmel for a candid conversation about some of the biggest problems they see in modern mental health care—and what therapists can do differently. Jeremy brings a unique perspective to the discussion: he experienced severe depression in college and spent months in different therapies and therapy groups without getting better. Then, working with one of David Burns' students, he discovered powerful cognitive therapy techniques that produced dramatic results in just two weeks. The experience left him both grateful and frustrated—and motivated to understand why effective treatment can sometimes be so difficult to find. David, Kevin, and Jeremy explore several common pitfalls in therapy, including the failure to measure results, getting lost in the past, talking about problems in vague and general terms, and assuming that every therapist is qualified to treat every kind of problem. Accountability: Is Therapy Actually Working? The conversation begins with one of David's central concerns: accountability. If someone has been coming to therapy for months—or even years—how do they know whether treatment is actually helping? Kevin shares his own experience of spending several years in therapy without clearly defined goals or any systematic testing of progress. Although he valued the relationship with his therapist, he now sees the lack of specific goals and measurement as a major limitation. By contrast, his current approach involves establishing concrete treatment goals and measuring progress before and after sessions. Jeremy points out that many people in therapy cannot even answer a basic question: What are you working on? Without clear goals, it becomes difficult for patients to hold therapists—or themselves—accountable for results. Do We Really Need to Find the Cause in the Past? The group then tackles another controversial question: Does effective therapy require uncovering the origins of a problem in childhood or the distant past? David tells the story of a woman with a severe elevator phobia who had been told in psychoanalysis that the roots of her fear were in childhood—and that overcoming it might take several more years. During a workshop, David instead helped her confront the feared elevator directly. Within minutes, her fear disappeared, and she subsequently rode skyscraper elevators without difficulty. The larger point isn't that the past is irrelevant. Rather, David argues that therapy can become unnecessarily focused on discovering hypothetical causes when the more practical question is: What is bothering you right now, and what can we do about it? The conversation extends this idea to trauma and PTSD. David describes an approach that focuses primarily on the patient's current distress rather than repeatedly dwelling on the traumatic history. Jeremy shares an example of someone whose debilitating trauma-related flashbacks improved after confronting the traumatic memory directly. From General Problems to Specific Moments: The Power of Fractals Another major theme is the distinction between general problems and specific problems. People commonly come into therapy saying things like: <li style="font-weight: 400;" ar
- Sep 7, 202653 min
518: Why So Much Therapy Doesn't Work (And What Actually Does)
Episode 518: Why So Much Therapy Doesn't Work (And What Actually Does) Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guest: Jeremy Karmel What happens when therapy doesn't work? In this provocative episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, David Burns and Jeremy Karmel join Kevin Cornelius to examine some uncomfortable questions about the mental health field: Why do some people remain in therapy for years without getting better? Why do so few therapists measure their patients' progress? What happens when therapists become overly attached to one particular school of therapy? And how can we make psychotherapy more effective, accountable, and evidence-based? Jeremy brings a particularly personal perspective to the conversation. After experiencing severe depression in college and trying numerous forms of therapy without success, he worked with Matt May using TEAM-CBT and experienced a dramatic recovery in roughly two weeks. That experience ultimately led him to become deeply involved in TEAM-CBT and in the development of the Feeling Great app. David and Jeremy describe a list of more than 30 concerns about the way mental health care is commonly practiced today. They emphasize that the goal isn't simply to criticize therapists, but to encourage a radical improvement in the effectiveness of psychotherapy. In This Episode 1. Can financial incentives create a conflict of interest? David and Jeremy explore a difficult question: If therapists are paid by the session, is there an inherent incentive to keep therapy going longer than necessary? They contrast long-term therapy without measurable improvement with a model in which the therapist's goal is to help the client recover as quickly and completely as possible. David argues that therapists should be able to define what successful treatment looks like and determine whether their interventions are actually producing meaningful change. Kevin offers another perspective from his experience at Feeling Good Institute, where brief TEAM-CBT therapy can lead to rapid improvement while also generating referrals because clients recognize that the treatment is effective. 2. Are schools of therapy becoming like "cults"? David and Jeremy question the tendency within psychotherapy to become attached to particular theorists, schools, and treatment models. Instead of assuming that one approach explains every psychological problem, they argue for flexibility. Depression, anxiety, relationship problems, and other difficulties may have very different causes and may require very different interventions. David describes TEAM-CBT as a framework for effective psychotherapy rather than allegiance to one particular technique. He has developed more than 140 techniques and emphasizes selecting methods according to the individual's specific problem. Jeremy points out that therapists and patients can be tempted to treat the ideas of famous figures such as Freud or Carl Rogers as unquestionable truths rather than hypotheses that should be tested against evidence. 3. The refusal to measure Perhaps the strongest theme of the episode is the importance of measurement. David argues that therapists need to know whether their patients are actually improving—not simply assume that they are. His approach involves measuring symptoms at the beginning and end of sessions and tracking changes over time. If a person begins a session feeling 90% depressed and ends at 80%, that's useful information. If the numbers don't improve from week to week, the therapist has evidence that something needs to change. On the other hand, dramatic changes can provide tangible evidence that treatment is working. Jeremy shares the story of a friend who had apparently been depressed for 18 months or more while receiving therapy, yet neither the therapist nor the patient had been systematically measuring whether the depression was improving. 4. Therapists aren't always accurate judges of how their patients feel One of the most surprising parts of the discussion is David's argument that therapists' clinical intuition can be remarkably inaccurate. He describes research in which highly trained clinicians interviewed patients extensively and then estimated how depressed, anxious, angry, or suicidal the patients were. Their estimates were extremely inaccurate compared with the patients' own ratings. The lesson is humbling: We cannot reliably assume that we know how another person feels simply because we've spent a
- Aug 31, 202637 min
517: How a Bloody Trauma Case Cured My Lifelong Blood Phobia
Episode 517: How a Bloody Trauma Case Cured My Lifelong Blood Phobia Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Episode Summary Can your greatest fear become one of your greatest strengths? In this deeply personal episode, Dr. David Burns shares the remarkable true story of how a severe lifelong blood phobia nearly ended his medical career—and how one unforgettable day in the emergency room transformed that fear forever. David recounts his unconventional path to becoming a psychiatrist, including almost dropping out of medical school, taking years away from medicine, living without money while trying to create a life centered around helping others, and eventually finding his way back to psychiatry through a residency at Highland Hospital in Oakland. On his very first day in the emergency department, David was confronted with what seemed like his worst nightmare: a critically injured bombing victim covered in blood. Unable to avoid the situation, he was asked to help clean gunpowder from the patient's wounds. What began as overwhelming terror became an unexpected turning point that permanently erased his blood phobia—and ultimately shaped his career treating anxiety disorders. Along the way, David and Kevin explore why exposure is one of the most powerful treatments for anxiety, why motivation is essential for lasting change, and why courage doesn't require the absence of fear. This inspiring conversation is a reminder that the experiences we most want to avoid can sometimes become the doorway to profound growth. In This Episode Why David never intended to become a physician—and almost quit medical school. The childhood experiences that contributed to his lifelong blood phobia. How avoiding feared situations keeps anxiety alive. The extraordinary trauma case that unexpectedly became David's own exposure therapy. The surprising moment his fear disappeared completely. David's concept of the "200% cure"—when something you once feared becomes something you genuinely enjoy. Why therapists sometimes avoid using exposure therapy, even though it is one of the most effective anxiety treatments. Why motivation often determines whether people are able to face their fears. The role of acceptance and willingness during exposure. A moving reunion with Highland Hospital decades later through the surgeon who recently performed David's successful colon surgery. Key Takeaways Exposure works because avoidance keeps fear alive. The natural impulse is to escape what frightens us. Unfortunately, every act of avoidance teaches the brain that the feared situation is dangerous. When we stay in the feared situation long enough, anxiety eventually peaks and then naturally declines. The feared catastrophe rarely occurs, and our confidence grows. Courage means acting while you're afraid. Kevin highlights an important distinction: You don't have to eliminate fear before taking action. Real courage is moving forward even while your anxiety feels overwhelming. David's anxiety remained at a 100 out of 100 for nearly fifteen minutes before it suddenly dissolved. Anxiety cannot remain at its peak forever. <span style
- Aug 24, 202645 min
516: The Man Who Was Fired Five Times
The Man Who Was Fired Five Times How Letting Go of Blame Can Transform Your Life Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns What if the biggest obstacle to your happiness isn't your depression, your anxiety, or even the difficult people around you? What if it's the belief that everyone else needs to change first? In this powerful episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Dr. David Burns and host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, discuss one of David's favorite therapy stories from his recent Psychology Today article, "The Man Who Was Fired Five Times." What begins as the story of a brilliant computer programmer who can't keep a job becomes an unforgettable lesson in overcoming resistance, building meaningful relationships, and discovering the extraordinary power of humility. This episode is packed with practical TEAM-CBT techniques, fascinating therapy demonstrations, and one of the most inspiring recovery stories you'll ever hear. In This Episode A Brilliant Man Who Couldn't Keep a Job David introduces us to "Bhagwant" (a pseudonym), an exceptionally gifted computer programmer who sought treatment after being fired five times in just two years. Although he initially came to therapy complaining of low self-esteem, David quickly noticed something much deeper. Bhagwant believed: His coworkers were conspiring against him. His bosses failed to appreciate his intelligence. Other people were the source of nearly all his suffering. Despite his obvious brilliance, his habit of blaming others had become the greatest obstacle to both his career and his happiness. Why David Didn't Try to Help Him...At First Instead of immediately offering therapy techniques, David did something surprising. He told Bhagwant that perhaps they shouldn't work together. Why? Because therapy would require Bhagwant—not his coworkers—to do all of the changing. Rather than arguing with Bhagwant or trying to convince him he was wrong, David used one of the most powerful TEAM-CBT methods: Dangling the Carrot By joining Bhagwant's resistance instead of fighting it, David completely changed the emotional dynamic. Instead of saying: "You're the problem." He essentially said: "You're right—it seems terribly unfair that you'd have to do all the work when everyone else is causing the problem." That paradoxical response immediately dissolved Bhagwant's resistance. Moments later, he admitted something he had hidden from David: He hadn't merely been placed on probation. He had already been fired—for the fifth time. Why Specificity Matters One of the central themes of the episode is David's insistence on working with specific moments instead of vague labels. Rather than treating "low self-esteem" as the problem, David asks: What happened? Where were you? <li style="font-weight: 400
- Aug 17, 202645 min
515: Ask David-When Negative Thoughts Won't Stop
Episode 515: Ask David Parenting Meltdowns, Real-Time TEAM-CBT, and When Negative Thoughts Won't Stop What do you do when your child has a public meltdown—and you feel your own frustration rising just as quickly? And what if your mind feels so overwhelmed with anxious or depressive thoughts that completing a Daily Mood Log seems impossible? In this Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns is joined by host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, and Psychiatrist/TEAM-CBT therapist Dr. Matt May to answer two thoughtful listener questions that many parents and therapy enthusiasts will recognize. Together, they demonstrate TEAM-CBT techniques live, showing not only what to do, but how to think differently in the moment. Along the way, they explore why changing your relationship with your own thoughts is often more important than trying to control other people's behavior. In This Episode Question 1: How Do I Use TEAM-CBT in Real Time When My Child Has a Meltdown? A listener describes taking his two young sons to the driving range when one child suddenly wants to leave while the other wants to stay. As frustration mounts, so do the automatic thoughts: "He's being a brat." "He's too immature for this." "He's ungrateful and whines all the time." Although the listener can challenge these thoughts later using a Daily Mood Log, he wonders: How can I use TEAM-CBT in the middle of an emotionally charged parenting moment? David, Kevin, and Matt explore this question through several live demonstrations. Topics Include: Why self-compassion comes before effective parenting The danger of "should" statements directed at yourself How beating yourself up actually makes it harder to respond compassionately Why practice outside emotional moments prepares you for success inside emotional moments Accepting your own imperfections as a parent Matt demonstrates how to respond to his own inner critic using Externalization of Voices, replacing self-criticism with realistic self-acceptance instead of perfectionism. Challenging "Shoulds" About Other People The conversation then shifts to another common trap: Trying to make other people different than they are. Together they examine several automatic thoughts parents commonly experience: "He's being a brat." "He's too immature." "He's ungrateful." David helps Matt and Kevin identify the cognitive distortions hiding inside these thoughts, including: Labeling Hidden should statements Unrealistic expectations Blaming Rather than arguing intellectually, they demonstrate TEAM-CBT methods such as: <li style="font-weight: 400;" aria-leve
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About Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!
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